USL worries

Discussion in 'New York City FC' started by Metrogo, Mar 17, 2009.

  1. Metrogo

    Metrogo Member

    Apr 6, 1999
    Washington Hghts NY
    As the BBs know from our message board, I've been a bit of a downer on this thing. And I am concerned about it. A few reasons.

    1. We've had experience with sub division teams before. The centaurs and Vipers were not exactly gleaming successes.

    2. NYC is not a minor league city. The Cyclones work because they have a stadium in a desirable, kitschy neighborhood, and have a Brooklyn "brand". A real strong identity.

    3. So far, from the little we know, I think the ownership group of this team is proposing to do this in the worst way possible. Start outside the city, move in the city. No dedicated stadium to build supporter loyalty. Hell, how are LI fans going to feel knowing that they might play the next game at Baker Field in upper manhattan? And then vice versa. This will have the effect, in my opinion, of alienating ALL fans.

    4. Now I know, this is something the BBs can really sink their teeth into. But I gotta say, I'm leery about getting involved with something that is doomed to failure. Of course, we can help make it work. God knows we have shown that that we can market ourselves and the teams we support 100 times better than the ESC (I'm not even sure that's something they try to do). But if they're selling Jaguars for $10,000, and we're selling Hyundai's for $10,000, no amount of persuasion is going to convince many people to support a USL team with no dedicated home and no identity when across the river Red Bull is playing in the best stadium in the country.

    5. You better believe that the metroflips of the world will come and laugh their asses off at us when we are 200 strong at Hofstra in a stadium containing 750, the rest of whom are kids from youth leagues.

    I think we need to be a little less excited about this, and a little more measured. LEt's see what happens. But as of right now, I don't have high confidence that this will be a success.
     
  2. Michael K.

    Michael K. Member

    Mar 3, 1999
    There or Thereabouts
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm with you, that there are plenty of reasons to be skeptical and measured, as you put it. I'll only address this point, briefly, by arguing that it's really hard to make comparisons with past teams like this, without allowing for differences in ownership, approach to the market, etc.; it's even harder to draw those comparisons when the teams in question were trying to make it in the late 90s-early 00's (if memory serves.)
    It's only ten years or so, but that's practically a generation in US soccer culture. The fan population, the composition of it and the culture, in some ways, has grown, changed and matured. How that plays out now is anyone's guess, but I think it means you can only take the Centaur/Viper/RR comparisons so far.
     
  3. Manhattan66

    Manhattan66 New Member

    Jul 9, 2008
    NY
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    Yeah, if this is going to be a city team than why play all the way out at Hofstra for a year? It makes so much more sense for them to choose Icahn or Baker Field as home and stick with it. It would be interesting to see what stadium most people would prefer though.
     
  4. metroflip73

    metroflip73 Member

    Mar 3, 2000
    NYC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with you wholeheartedly with your 1st point. I still went to Staten Island to give the Vipers a shot. I'll give this new club a shot. At least this team will be somewhat accessible via the MTA Subway, as opposed to the stadium that the Vipers played at or Hofstra's football stadium (which I will have to go to in a couple of years no matter what for something non-soccer).

    I'm not gonna laugh at this team, even though you think that will be the case, which is pretty stupid on your part. I'll spend some $$$ watching it, but that's about it. And I've said that before, and I am only speaking about my interest, not about anyone else's.
     
  5. QueensNick

    QueensNick Member

    Jul 19, 2007
    New York City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I understand where your coming from Metro but i guess it really all comes down to what ownership is going to do with this team! What their ulitimate plan is! Its hard to rush to judgments now based on the one rumor - lets see what they have planned and what the schedule will look like!
     
  6. metroflip73

    metroflip73 Member

    Mar 3, 2000
    NYC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Obviously. Not a word as to who the owner(s) are, I suppose.
     
  7. Metrogo

    Metrogo Member

    Apr 6, 1999
    Washington Hghts NY
    Agreed nicky. But this is a risk, and not just for the investors but for us. It would be easy enough to say "OK, let's do it and if it doesn't work out, no harm no foul". But that's not the case. A failed USL-1 side in NYC in 2010 will set back the cause of MLS2NYC. There is real risk here so I hope like hell the ownership group know what they're doing.
     
  8. PCFC

    PCFC Member

    May 13, 2007
    NYC
    Club:
    Newry City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I understand the concerns and addressing them honestly is the only way to overcome them. My responses to your points:

    1) It's hard to compare the current situations of the MLS and USL to the A-League and USISL of the late 90s. First, many New Yorkers still had their dream of an ideal NY club in the Metrostars. They believed the club would move to NYC and would still have their identity. That no longer exists. And there are many people looking for another option. Not to mention, with the clubs of the USL bidding (and getting awarded) MLS franchises, this isn't a minor league team, but the major first step.

    2) I agree. NYC identity should be a major concern addressed by the new team.

    3) While I also agree on this point as well (and we don't know what the official plans are for everything), the goal is to have a team in Queens or BK. This will be a NYC team as Red Bull New York will eventually move to their home in Harrison, NJ. Giants Stadium is as permanent a home to RBNY as Hofstra is to FC NY. Definitely less of a home as many of their games will be in Icahn.

    4) Red Bull will be playing in the best stadium in the country. They will probably have better talent. But I think the home-owned, people's organization aspect of this club will eventually draw the NYC crowd. A better comparison would be paying $10 for a six pack of Heineken vs. paying $10 for a pint of Brooklyn Brown Ale. While we are getting less quantity from a lesser known company, the product is something that proud NYers are willing to spend on.

    5) Empty stadiums and low attendance figures are not indicators for a bad product or a quality product. Oscars are not given to movies that bring in the most money, but rather ones that are done well. Time usually favors Oscar winners as people begin to realize their value. If done with quality structure and intelligent ownership, New Yorkers will follow. I wouldn't feel any offense from anyone screaming a corporate logo's name over a club of my own.

    I hope that helps.
     
  9. Michael K.

    Michael K. Member

    Mar 3, 1999
    There or Thereabouts
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a nice comparison. Heineken will ALWAYS be bigger and flashier, and to those who wanna drink Heineken - well, you're welcome to it. But an alternative is made well (better, some might say) and packaged appropriately (yes, names, symbols, logos ARE important - an argument I can't believe I even had to have with people over the past few years), then it can make it too.

    It's only when the monstrosity that owns Heineken waltzes in and intentionally wipes out all the alternatives (as corps of that nature are wont to do), or buys one up and rebrands it as something dumb like "Heineken Brooklyn," and that's all the choice people get, that there's problems.
     
  10. QueensNick

    QueensNick Member

    Jul 19, 2007
    New York City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Not at all - have been in touch with the group and working on a meeting between us and them - and i was given a name but i wont say his name because im not sure what role he is playing in this. Dont think they expected this to be leaked this early! Oh well - this is NY - lol

    As far as the international club - im really curious to know who is behind this - if its a BIG club then we know there is major money involved and that we might see some real money thrown into this.
     
  11. napolisoccer

    napolisoccer Member

    NYCFC - Napoli
    Feb 20, 2005
    Napoli
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy

    Thank you for this thread, Metrogo !!!
    Even if ia am away km from NYC, I think that this time is necessary more clearness, otherwise we will have another disappointment after the last 15th October.
    I truly hope ( and I think... ) that the final goal of the Borough Boys is the MLS ( in Italy, but I think in all the world the USA soccer means MLS and not USL !! ). Now the interest of this group can be A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR US and it can be a positive thing to play 2 YEARS IN USL.
    In my opinion the conditions must be :

    1) A solid ownership group
    2) 100% NYC identity ( the name - NYCFC or FCNYC -, the stadium - for the first 2 years I like the Columbia football stadium or the Icahn stadium - )
    3) To build a sss in Queens for the 2012 season in MLS ( the BB group can propose a partnership with Wilpon ).

    However I thank the Borough Boys and I hope that they can give us some news about this ownership group.

    NYC DESERVE THE MLS BY 2012 !!!!!
     
  12. NYC_COSMOS

    NYC_COSMOS BigSoccer Supporter

    Jan 13, 2007
    Queens, NY
    Club:
    CA Vélez Sársfield
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    You are starting to get me concerned as well.

    I agree with you wholeheartedly on this. This new team has to have STRONG IDENTITY WITH NYC or else it wont be worth the effort.

    Initially I thought that the rotating venue situation would work nicely but I'm starting to see it's downside. It could still work but a permanent home needs to be found.

    Aquaduct could be a solution if the ownership group could find the right marketing solution.

    I think that we might be getting in the middle of a USL v MLS war. USL is going to end up losing Vancouver and Portland, two of their heavy weights. So USL fires a salvo back in acquiring a franchise in NYC. Something that MLS has coveted since the beginning of the league.

    All is fair in love and war but should we as fans have to endure this war between these two rival leagues? There is some merit to throwing all our support behind this USL side and making it grow. But that all depends on the final intentions of this ownership group and their willingness to endure in this fight.

    If that's the case then I doubt any success will be attained.

    Unfortunately, I think that you are right. I'm usually the optimist when it comes to taking on any endeavor but I think that we will have to wait and see what the intentions of the ownership group might be.


    Like you said previously, what this group does and how this franchise produces could have an effect in how MLS2NYC is seen. If this franchise fails it could scare away the MLS investor (Wilpon).

    Right now there are many ifs. Let's see what this group proposes and then see if we can put our stamp of approval on it. This is most likely a one shot deal.
     
  13. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    :rolleyes:

    The rest of your post was good though.
     
  14. Metrogo

    Metrogo Member

    Apr 6, 1999
    Washington Hghts NY
    Thanks, I enjoy taking potshots. It's just my style. I do look forward, though, to the formation of a supporters' union. Before this sport grows into one of the majors in this country, I think the supporters' groups have an opportunity to have an influence. Once we have our lebron james and multi million dollar television contracts, it will be hard for a few hundred dopes to exert any power.

    I hope the ESC and the BBs as a supporters group for an nyc club can work together on that.
     
  15. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    If you want me to put you on the email list i will, there are a few guys really looking into this..i did my part and got the heads to the table...but i am too busy with ESC to put much more effort into that project in any leadership basis. (although as an attorney i did volunteer to review any "white paper" or position paper prior to submission).

    Anyway, if that is something up your alley let me know.
     
  16. QueensNick

    QueensNick Member

    Jul 19, 2007
    New York City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    honestly - if there is going to be something like this - i am totally intersted as well- i think its very important for the game! You can put my email on the list as well!
     
  17. KingsCountyFC

    KingsCountyFC Member

    Nov 6, 2007
    BK - NY / Louisiana
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  18. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It needs a couple strongarm headsmashers to get things going. I contemplated doing that last summer. I got all SG heads emails, contacte dthem all and proposed an outline at a white paper document to present the league at the Supporters Summit (and changing the format to invite only board style meeting with MLS) to present a unifed case of concerns.

    Everyone wanted that to happen, mostly, but no one wanted to do the work themselves. I was way too busy myself, but offered to review any documents they drafted.

    It kinda died off but a couple guys are trying to resurect it right now, Ben Burton in Chicago is a big pusher of this effort. PM me your emails and i wil put you in contact with the other leaders.
     
  19. Haig

    Haig Member+

    May 14, 2000
    METROSTARS
    Club:
    --other--
    Years ago, when we tried to take a similar approach with an ad hoc umbrella group offering an agenda, it got shot down by the Screaming Egomaniacs. Are they on board this time?
     
  20. NYC_COSMOS

    NYC_COSMOS BigSoccer Supporter

    Jan 13, 2007
    Queens, NY
    Club:
    CA Vélez Sársfield
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Forget them. Get everyone else on board and they will come on.
     
  21. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course not.
     
  22. Ed-D

    Ed-D Member

    Spurs
    United States
    Jun 13, 2005
    NY
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Definitely Icahn here...
     
  23. Ed-D

    Ed-D Member

    Spurs
    United States
    Jun 13, 2005
    NY
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They aren't? What exactly would you say they are then?
     
  24. NYC_COSMOS

    NYC_COSMOS BigSoccer Supporter

    Jan 13, 2007
    Queens, NY
    Club:
    CA Vélez Sársfield
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Well if you consider that TFC and LAG had pretty much packed houses and the product was atrocious, then I would say that PCFC is pretty much dead on with his post.
     
  25. PCFC

    PCFC Member

    May 13, 2007
    NYC
    Club:
    Newry City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Florida Marlins routinely have the worst attendance, while being one of the most successful since its inception.
    Last year, the New Orleans Hornets were 2nd in the Western Conference but 26th in overall attendance in the NBA.
    You could have USA v. Japan in the WBC in Miami and still have 13,000 fans.

    Attendance is not an indicator of good sport. Maybe a profitable business?
     

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