USL to implement promotion and relegation

It's starting to get that way now............. This is the second year in a row that the three teams that were promoted, went straight back down. The next three clubs coming up are going to be in the same rough boat next season as well. The FFP/PSR rules are making it very difficult for newly promoted clubs to field teams that can compete across an entire 38 game season.

 

You think the same interest that is in England can be translated here? Will people get excited to see their team suck all season, still support just to see them not suck as much as those that are getting relegated?

 

NASCAR used to have the season ending race be a possible title decider. It was in 1992, but not in most years. That's why they decided to go to the Chase.

 

Yeah it is worrisome that it's the second year in a row that the three newly promoted clubs dropped back down without a fight but...

1. Only two seasons ago all three clubs stayed up and are currently thriving in the Premiere League.
2. Promotion and Relegation has existed in England for well over 100 years and has worked well during that time.

Maybe we are at a transitional moment and the money that the top clubs have has made it impossible for pro/rel to continue to function, but I doubt it and think we need a lot more time to throw out something that has worked for over a hundred years.

Finally I thought this discussion was about USL in the US not English Football? Do you think the biggest challenge to pro/rel working in USL is the difference in income between the divisions? If so show me the math I'd be interested to see why you think that. Otherwise don't really see your point about the prem as relevant.

Don't know but I think it's more likely that someone will buy a ticket to watch a sucky team that's still playing for something than a sucky team with nothing to play for.

Not sure that has gone well for them. Tough to say it's all the fault of going to a playoff format but Nascar has broadly lost popularity since it's heyday in the 90's, when they still used a normal full season points total to crown their champion.

 

Hopefully we find out soon when USL adds ProRel and we start to compare attendance from both leagues and formats to put that narrative to rest.

 

Pro/rel will still function the same way. three teams up, three teams down. What we will continue to see though is the teams coming up will likely be the ones going down due to the restrictions on spending that PSR and FFP has brought. Now, there has been talk about loosening the PSR regulations, we'll see if that occurs.

As for USL and Pro/Rel? Their biggest challenge is going to be building relevance. We keep hearing that Pro/Rel creates stories. Are people outside of those local markets going to actually CARE about those stories though? Sure they might care on the First and Last gameday's of each season, but will they care enough to tune into the other 30+ games?

EVERY American sports league (Pro and NCAA) has stories. It's up to those parties (leagues, broadcasters, media) to tell them in ways that are compelling and make people care. This is one of things NBC Sports is excellent at. ESPN is good at this too, though it is far more sporadic these days.

 

For me, it's that up to this point there's been ZERO backing up the talk from the folks that are allegedly all about it. The FANS don't put their money or their @$$ where their mouth is. I reference the Open Cup. For all the uproar and all the $h!tstorm on social media ... nothing. The few lower tier clubs that already drew, drew. The rest? .... crickets. The alleged desire simply isn't being manifested in any tangible way.

It was announced as coming. Why then aren't fans flocking to their local USL outfit? Why isn't there even a noticeable (let alone significant) bump across the USL in asses in seats? They've flat told you they're going to do what you want. So where are you?

They're at home ... just like they were in Seattle after being awarded the MLS franchise. Until it's the thing, people don't show up even in places where there's a passion for it. Same thing in Portland etc etc ... I mean hell, they're ALREADY making excuses --> "not true pro/rel" blah blah

 

For me the major appeal of pro/rel is for the local markets.

 

While there is some value in the US Open Cup example you provide, I'm not sure being critical of the prolies for not showing up at USL games RIGHT NOW, is particularly valid. While I agree with you that this is just another in a long line of Eurosnobs excuses for not following their local club/league ("OMG! Countdown clock is the worst!", "OMG! Shootouts to make sure someone wins??", etc, etc), the fact that pro/rel doesn't currently exist in USL is still a barrier for them.

USL itself seems to be hedging its bets on implementing pro/rel. Yes, they announced they have voted to implement it, but they have also said it would only happen if the D1 league was launched and they haven't really made any announcements about the D1 league since they said they'd start one in 2027 or 2028. There's technically nothing stopping USL from implementing pro/rel between USLC and USL1 right now. They have enough teams in the leagues where they could support pro/rel, but for some reason they can't do it unless USLP is in place?

 

10-15 pro/rel ideas floating around reminds me of people fantasizing about overthrowing the government because obviously their favorite niche brand of socialist utopia will replace it lol

https://beyondthe90.substack.com/p/kartiks-notebook-mls-next-pro-back

Where do we stand on USL D1?

My understanding is the league office in Tampa will start taking applications from interested existing USL Championship clubs in the next few weeks. What will be involved in the process?

• Clubs will have to show they comply with US Soccer’s Pro League Standards for Division 1 men’s clubs. The PLS can be downloaded here.
• A five-year budget plan is being requested of all applicants per our sources. This is not related to the USSF PLS but to USL’s own internal standards which might be more stringent in terms of budget/finance than USSF’s vague “net worth” requirements.
• The clubs that are accepted will be expected to pay an “upward mobility fee.” This will likely only amount to a few million dollars we understand.
• Those clubs not accepted in the initial batch will still have ample opportunity to apply and be accepted prior to 2028 we understand. However, they will be competing with outside applicants and expansion clubs.
• The thinking is the league will launch with 14 teams in 2028 I am now told, not 12 as we had originally reported.
• I am also told their are about 10-15 different viable ideas for how to implement promotion and relegation that are floating around.

 

So.. USL is making them pay for the honor to be promoted to USLP.. Will the teams be refunded if they are relegated and will teams that aren't in the inaugural season be required to pay the fee to be promoted?

So outside applicants/expansion clubs will not be required to climb their way up from USL-1, but can buy their way into USL-P? Is this just for the inaugural season, or will expansion clubs be able to buy their way into USL-P in the future?

I wonder what those viable ides are? Seems like a lot.

 

In order for Pro/Rel to be viable for the professional game here in the United STates, there needs to be NATIONAL level interest/appeal. I fully understand the local interest. The AHL is HUGE locally in Rochester, and Syracuse and Laval...... But that local interest isn't driving lucrative broadcast, sponsorship, and rights deals that these leagues and teams need for long term sustainability.

 

I absolutely get that. I also find it very hard to believe that there is ZERO noticable amount of these folks that don't mean their conviction about pro/rel or "american soccer landscape" that with this announcement all we have are delusional blowhards on twitter talking shit about USL being better than MLS already due to it.

The USOC analogy fits as it is a direct one for one for the outrage/displeasure/etc displayed by these very same folks. There is this belief that this thing (USOC/pro-rel) is holy and pure in regard to soccer. MLS shit on the USOC, they yelled at the clouds and then absolutely nothing in tangible effort/support/backing their bullshit. Now we've got the exact same thing happening in regard to the very thing they've cried for since NBC told them soccer was cool in 2012. They've been begging for a reason and have now been given that carrot. But they ain't even sniffing at it, let alone taking a step towards it.

Honestly that makes sense to me. You don't know who is going to go USLP (they're going to essentially take bids from existing USLC teams and other USL outfits that think they've got the britches to give it a go). Implementing pro/rel could deflate some of the outfits that are pondering or may be on the fence about what they want to do. It's a completely unnecessary and avoidable risk in regard to launching USLP and pro/rel across USL. You mitigate anything you can.

Also, how bad would it look when @frenchymcstupidhead32894981893 on twitter doesn't back up his hot air and doesn't show up with his 4 friends to Corpus Christ FC matches and then shits on them when they get relegated in fake pro/rel?

... but you're a minority of folks. I miss a certain poster that used to remind everyone in the p/r thread that until the last week or two in close relegation races, nobody across England really cares about the clubs facing relegation or their "story" ... the local markets are only relevant to the local markets involved. That's in the richest (literally and figuratively) soccer country in the world.

We all know that it works even less so that way here. The overwhelming majority of the season is going to be horrid for bad clubs playing bad soccer and sitting in the relegation zone.

 

The reason why I don't think the USOC example is particularly applicable is because MLS still stiffed the competition by only sending half of the league (not counting MLSNP teams), but I also think the people that were raging about MLS's decisions were the people that cared about USOC and, in theory, were already showing up to games and/or watching online. The ragers were a subset of an already subset of existing US soccer fans.

Maybe? But I intended it to be more of an explanation as to why a prolie would not be showing up at a USL games right now. Until USL actually implements pro/rel, it's just vaporware.

And this here is the rub. The amount of people that are angry online about the lack of pro/rel in the US is exceedingly small. So small and spread out across the country that I'm not sure them attending USL games would even be noticeable in averages.

 

You get national interest through individual clubs. Individual clubs also are the gateway to getting interest in an entire league. I have never really followed MLS other than being the most casual of casual fans. But this year I am following the league. Give you one guess why.

 

Not sure why this concept of local vs national is either contradictory or mutually exclusive. Can't you come up with ideas that will help fans connect with their local club, which in turn could lead them to become fans of the entire league? And can't those ideas also be marketing to any hypothetical neutrals hoping they tune in as well?

 

I wonder if some USL casuals will hear about pro/rel and think it means their local team has a shot at MLS?

 

1660 pages to go.

 

It's just the state of how the overwhelming majority of sports fandom here in the US works. I mean, there's not a relative following of USL or even MLS on a national level as compared to what we see in local markets. The entirety of our sports lens is more player driven ... we play with these athletes as kids, they go to our HS, then they play on our select teams/college, and then they're pros.

THAT, or you follow the team from the city you're from/went to school in/or live as an adult. Everything about it is fractured and non cohesive. College sports is the closest we get to what you're talking about but even then it is limited to conference following. You'll get SEC or BIG tribalism but they aren't following the other conferences for the most part. They're just checking in on whatever team they may face in the playoffs/bowl game. They don't give a rats ass about the MAC or whatever other conference though.

And as I pointed out when mentioning RichardL ... even in the deepest/richest/most connected/longest historied pyramid the fandom doesn't really translate across the league(s).

So why is it such a strongly held belief HERE that HERE it will do this/work this way? We're already NOT connected/infused/culturally behind this type of approach/connection to our sports ... but pro/rel will do that HERE when it doesn't even do it in the most perfect/primed spot for it to do so?

Sure, we can ... and plenty of clubs do. But how is caring about San Antonio FC going to make me care about Hartford/Birmingham in May? I care about the Western Conference results, but that's still a team-centric eyeball as opposed to a league one.

I mean when you were an NFL fan ... what'd you watch? How many "neutral" games did you tune in for? How much of the league did you actually follow that had NOTHING to do with SD?

 

Not sure where I said it would. I've been pretty consistent in saying that the biggest appeal for pro/rel is keeping people engaged with their local club. Will some of those people hopefully expand to a wider interest in the league as a whole? Hopeully, I Googled Sporting K.C. for the first time in my life last week. But for me that's not the main appeal of pro/rel. The main appeal is keeping local supporters engaged.

The NFL is actually the one league that has been quite successful in creating a "brand" and getting lots of neutral fans to pay attention. Part of it was being ahead of the curve in marketing the league rather than the teams. Part of it is the shorter season so each game matters more, which leads into the playoffs. And of course there is sports betting and fantasy football.

 

Sorry, the original comment and follow up made it seem as though you were saying something you apparently weren't.

BUT, back to the mutually exclusive comment ... they aren't factually, but in reality they almost are. It goes back to what I've brought up about how we (as a whole) in the US get attached to sports/teams. It IS exclusive because the connection is PERSONAL to each individual. That doesn't mean there won't be crossover etc.

In terms of pro/rel ... FOR ME the risk/reward isn't worth it. The "consequence of failure" half of it needlessly takes things away from the club. It lessens the impact of the club itself, reduces ability to compete on all levels (revenue generation/engagement/for players/literally every avenue), and lowers the reasons for fans to care.

Now, an even bigger problem I see is how society has changed since I was a kid. The "die hard" or "invested" fan has gone by the wayside. Sports are ever increasingly seen as a "past time" or just "entertainment" VS something you lived and died by (so to speak). The true "caring" aspect isn't how the three generations behind me operate. If something "cooler" or whatever comes along, they move right along with it.

I don't disagree with any of that. Though, like the PREM, with the absolute best case scenario for a talking point we still see the very clear "not exactly" numbers play out. OVERALL relative to every other sport on screen in the US the NFL clears handily in terms of "neutral" engagement. HOWEVER, despite how phenomenal of a monster it has created ... nobody gives a damn when the Jaguars or Titans or Cardinals are on. And why should they if they aren't your team or in your team's division?

 

Not MLS related but.....

BREAKING:

10 second division clubs in Mexico have filed a claim with the Court of Arbitration for Sport against the Mexican Football Federation & Liga MX.

The Liga Expansión clubs are demanding the return of promotion and relegation next season. https://t.co/fl9q0NVjMo

— Felipe Cárdenas (@FelipeCar) May 20, 2025

 

I don't know where this idea that ProRel will make locals care about their club comes from. Will locals care just because of ProRel but right now in MLS (that is already the Top division) a lot of locals don't care because there isn't any ProRel? And that will change if ProRel is implemented? Riiighhttt.

Football is king in the US. It isn't only the NFL. College football is as big or bigger than the NFL. High School football is the most popular sport nation wide at that level. It didn't become popular because of a "format". It's just is. It's the sport Americans prefer.