USL to implement promotion and relegation

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by superdave, Feb 13, 2025.

  1. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I saw someone making an argument that Ballard FC should have been promoted to League One when they won League Two.

    Just imagine the logistics, when the majority of League One teams were on the East Coast. Not least signing a squad full of professional players, willing to spend most of their lives traveling to the opposite coast for maybe $25k a year.
     
  2. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You are correct, but this is exactly why licensing should be required. Not every club can survive moving up to the next division and part of that licensing should be everything you mention above. Licensing allows a league to make sure that clubs meet certain requirements before they can be promoted and, in some cases, gives clubs a goal that they can target in order to get themselves in that position. That being said, there are going to be clubs that don't have the ability to meet the requirements and those clubs can exist in a pro/rel environment without having the risk of going under if they do get a lucky season and end up in a promotion spot.


    What does the size of the US vs Japan have to do with anything? Again, if a league wants to set-up pro/rel, they should (imho) include a licensing process to make sure that teams can move up to the next division. *shrug* I also don't see a problem with a league setting up pro/rel if they want to, even if it doesn't really do anything beyond a different league format.
     
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  3. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think even USL is proposing that L2 clubs be included in pro/rel. From what I've seen, its only USL1, USLC, and USLP.

    Including L2 clubs in pro/rel would be difficult considering for a lot of clubs, their primary player pool is college students in their off season.
     
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  4. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But geography is a major factor, you can't just ignore it. USL Super League only had Dallas and Spokane west of the Mississippi. One is gone and the other is playing in front of 2,000 at the Cotton Bowl.
     
  5. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which is an issue with USL Super League. It only had 9 clubs, 7 of which are in Eastern US.. Right now, USL-1 and USL-C have 42 teams between them and a much larger geographic spread...
     
  6. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    USL PL has 4 applicants. :cool:
     
  7. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah.. that is definitely an issue that they need to resolve. It also points to why they need some sort of "licensing" for the rest of the USL clubs. Despite the reported interest in a majority of owners in pro/rel, it really seems like the majority also don't want to be in USLP. The last thing USL wants to do is have its pro/rel be voluntary like they did the last time they had pro/rel, when no one voluntarily promoted and the one team they forced to promote folded the next season.
     
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  8. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who?
     
  9. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Travel costs
     
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  10. Paulo_84

    Paulo_84 New Member

    Benfica
    Portugal
    Mar 28, 2026

    Because they are trying to take a bigger step than they should, they should instead implement a controlled promotion and relegation system that introduces some openness gradually.

    They shouldn’t be demanding Division 1 sanctions and requirements right away. Instead, they should place the Premier League at Division 2 status and create league-based requirements rather than relying entirely on USSF standards.

    Obviously, clubs should also be graded through a licensing system.

    Like I suggested: A, B, and C categories.

    They could guarantee that A-category clubs would never fall below Championship level.
    - A category: eligible to play in the Premier League
    - B category: eligible to play in the Championship
    - C category: eligible to play in League One

    Of course, this only makes sense if there are more A- and B-category teams than available places in each division.

    If USL only has 12 A-category teams, then promotion and relegation would exist only on paper. The same applies to the Championship level.

    In my opinion:
    - Premier League should have 12–16 teams
    - Championship should have 24 teams
    - League One should have 48 teams

    Club licensing limits could look like this:
    - Category A: maximum 24 clubs
    - Category B: maximum 36 clubs
    - Category C: "no limit"

    League structure:
    - D2: Premier League — 12 teams, no conferences, 32-game season + playoffs (?)
    - D3: Championship — 24 teams, two conferences, 32-game season + playoffs (?)
    - D4: League One — up to 48 teams, four conferences + playoffs

    Instead of having playoffs for the Premier League and Championship titles — since both leagues could realistically have balanced schedules — I think a separate USL Cup would make more sense.

    It would also create opportunities for strong A-category clubs playing in the Championship to face A-category clubs competing in the Premier League during the same season.

    The USL Cup could be based on league standings:
    - Top 8 Premier League teams
    - Top 16 Championship teams

    Format:
    - Round 1: 16 Championship teams
    - Round 2: Round 1 winners vs. top 8 Premier League teams
    - Quarterfinals: 8 teams
    - Semifinals: 4 teams
    - Final

    This system would create controlled mobility, maintain stability standards through licensing, and gradually build a real pyramid instead of forcing Division 1 requirements too early.
     
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  11. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Louisville
    North Carolina
    Pittsburgh
    SC Jacksonville

    That's per Wikipedia which has the sources linked but may not necessarily be up to date.
     
  12. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego FC
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ahh same S*** different year

    Not sure about everyone else but it was a major bonus to the prem season to actually have a relegation battle this year. Can't imagine what the league would be like if they pulled up the ladder.

    Wrecsam's story is about "sporting merit". At least compared to SDFC's story. Anyone interested in a documentary about a British-Egyptian billionaire signing a check? Say what you will about Wrecsam's advantages but they still had to translate it to the pitch.

    And speaking of SDFC I'm not sure I can handle the argument that we don't have enough clubs to fill a first division when we have 30 already at valuations of over half a BILLION.

    Championship Final was fun. I mean the match was S*** because of the heat but the last ten minutes were fun and got to watch an SDFC old boy come on for the last few minutes. The scenes in Hull City center were impressive as well. Not saying we need to blow everything up in hope of getting those scenes but it also shows that people do care.
     
  13. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hull City is a single soccer team in a location that the whole city celebrates, even people that don't follow soccer. I'm not sure we'll see that in a major US city anytime soon.
     
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  14. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They hope to be a differentiator, not so much a competitor. At least I hope so. Because Phoenix - should they move up - isn't going to have to move to Sun Devil Stadium to accommodate all the new crowds.
     
  15. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Once had a prawn tell me that if DC United were in a one-game relegation circumstance, that "the entire market would watch."

    Never mind that "the entire market" doesn't watch when the Caps are in the finals or the Nats are in the World Series. They're surely not going to find the drama of Who Sucks Slightly Less to be more compelling than a championship.
     
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  16. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm envisaging a 15,000 popup stadium in the
    Park 'n Swap car park
     
  17. Doogh

    Doogh Member+

    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    North Carolina FC were promoted to USL Championship in 2024 after winning USL League One in 2023, subsequently when they self-relegated to USL League One during financial hardship in 2021. NCFC self-relegating to USL League One actually harmed attendance, averaging 1,700 spectators in comparison to 5,050 spectators in 2016 when they were in NASL.

    Their attendance never recovered after coming back to USL Championship so it's not like the streets of Cary, NC were flooded with North Carolina FC fans cheering and chanting songs in English accents because their side went from one USL league to another. People are indifferent or won't know the difference. Plus, they are taking a "hiatus" by effectively not playing at all and hope that USL D1 would attract the local government public subsidies for a new soccer stadium in Raleigh. We'll see if that happens in 2028 though ;)
     
  18. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's where their erector set is now, basically.

    I have not been there since 2024, but I don't think they even have plumbing.
     
  19. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    USL investors should watch


    Summed up thus
    Screenshot_20260528-113954.png
     
  20. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As the saying goes: "How do you become a millionaire owner of a soccer club? Start as a tens of millionaire owner of a soccer club."
     
  21. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting that two of the 4 announced applicants, Miami and Jacksonville, have had home attendances of under 1,000 this season. That support for pro-rel must be very latent.

    Jacksonville HIGH 10,357 LOW 808
    Miami HIGH 1,439 LOW 713
     
  22. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You know it's all about that D1 sanctioning!!! Once they get sanctioned as a Division 1 team The Miami FC will be on the same level as Inter Miami. Duh! They'll be pulling 15K-20K instantly. Then you add in all the drama and consequences that Pro/Rel adds to EVERY game!?!?!?!??!!? OMG!!! ;)
     
  23. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    American investors are flocking to European Clubs because of Pro/Rel!



    No, that's not why they are investing in clubs in Europe. They're treating European Football Clubs like small time investors treat fixer upper homes in upcoming neighborhoods. Some of these smaller clubs have very good foundations and just need a little love (investment) to move them forward. Then they sell them.

    Euro Clubs have: stadiums, facilities, loyal supporters (iow customers), etc. Starting an expansion team in USL or MLS: You pay a ton of money just to buy the operating/franchise license, then you have to build the fanbase, facilities, stadium, etc. Building from scratch is an entirely different level of commitment (time and money) than buying a distressed asset that has a good foundatiopn and just needs some minor renovations and a glow up.
     
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  24. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "In five years we will be in Primera División celebrating our centenary and hopefully battling for a place in Europe," said club president Jeff Luhnow in 2023.

    They finished 16th in LaLiga 2 this season.

    Now 885 Capital will give it a go.
     
  25. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They paid €39M initially and have sold for €100M. Not a bad ROI, which is what these investors are looking for.
     
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