With the regular expansion and the MLS 2 additions I started thinking about few things. Mostly thinking about where all the players for 22 teams are going to come from. Here's what I came up with on where players will come. Below are some categories that I came up with. existing USL Pro players existing NASL Players college/ PDL / NPSL players academy players MLS loan players International players which would cover these groups and those from outside these groups. It seems with the MLS players for the teams that are affiliates they had previously mentioned they would get a minimum of 5 players. Does anyone know the max that can be loaned at one time? Also, I would guess the same guidelines would cover the MLS 2 teams. Has anyone read or heard anything that covers this?
According to one article I read (maybe about the new RSL team, I'll look for it) they said that they were allowed to loan 5 MLS roster players to the USL Pro club.
It's unlimited loans from the first team to the USL Pro team. The Galaxy loaned, I think, 10 players to G2 for one game.
I don't think all 10+ MLS roster players, McBean, Rugg, Villareal, BJ4, Venter, Perk, Mendola etc did all play at the same time?
BTW found this RSL quote and link: For now, the club is moving forward under the current agreement, which would include a handful of new signings, the fringe players on RSL’s first team and up to five RSL-Arizona Academy pickups — but he expects a lot to change after the postseason concludes. Read more at http://m.ksl.com/index/story/sid/32202229#YdEXys1JIetCvBi8.99
In the game against Arizona United, 8 starters on loan (Rowe, Jose Villarreal, Rugg, Meyer, Dunivant, Leonardo, Mendiola and BJIV) and 3 bench players on loan (Sorto, Hoffman, McBean). Sorto came on at half time for Joe Franco so at one point there were 9 loaned players on the pitch at the same time. Also, when the Galaxy announced G2 last year it was said there were any unlimited amount of loans: Technical Director Jovan Kirovski, Director of Soccer Operations David Kammarman and Onalfo will begin the process of building the LA Galaxy II team immediately. As part of the relationship between LA Galaxy and LA Galaxy II, any number of first team LA Galaxy players are available for loan to the USL PRO side. In addition, Galaxy II may utilize Galaxy Academy players for training and on game days with Academy products retaining their amateur status. That's the current academy player limit. Last year Elijah Martin played for G2 while still being with the academy (and thus not on a pro contract) and thus is still college elligible.
I wasn't really arguing with you, I was just trying to find out more info. In fact I posted the RSL quote to show it was talking about ACADEMY players not MLS roster players, as I previously assumed. Having a USL Pro team with 90% MLS reserves and academy players is ideal, at least from a MLS perspective. Not sure how that works with the USL Pro Players Union (unofficial).
http://www.uslsoccer.com/aboutusl/rules/index_E.html as of 2012 (last time they updated): USL rosters may consist of a maximum of 26 players, with 18 designated for each game. In the PDL, a maximum of eight (8) players may be over the age of 23. In USL PRO, each team is permitted a maximum of seven (7) foreign players on its active game-day roster and on its master roster. The PDL and W-League are permitted a maximum of eight (8) foreign players on both rosters.
It will be a work in progress to iron out the rules and it will likely still be complicated for certain situations. The precedent is there with MLB and Minor league baseball. As well as the NHL, with draft picks able to return to their Junior Club provided the do not reach the maxium number of games for NHL call ups. If they do then they must be assigned to clubs minor league affilite. A similar situation may be in place for Academy players and number of call ups for a pro side. i definetely like this though. With most clubs likely to have their USLPro club, Academy, and MLS club all within the same area. Academy players as well as USL Pro clubs can have players train across the three but return to their main club for matches. Or as it is known by most of the sports world here, practice.
Thanks, I had thought it was published some where but couldn't seem to find it. I think as the league expands, the foreign player will be an important part of a lot of the teams. And I think it's also an area of opportunity for the MLS players to bring in some 18 - 19 year old players with potential.
That is pretty much one of the big things that having a minor league affiliate. Whether it is a foreign player, Academy-Homegrown, a player entering the draft after prep/HS or a player who leaves college early. A draft pick with potential can stay with the organization instead of going outside the organization to find a lower division to get much needed playing time in meaningful matches. Very big for a young goal keeper or striker.
I understand the development part. What I was trying to comment on , but not very clearly is that a increase in the number of teams and the need for players. I think you'll see even a more importance in bringing in good foreign players. You see that also at the MLS level also. We continue to grow and expand our overall player pool. But with all the expansion at the various levels, the pool is going to get a lot more shallow.
This is good information that I wasn't fully aware of. Since I know more about SKC than about other squads and I think it's a good test case for where MLS rosters are at right now (not loaded with foreign talent, high priced DP's, Academy isn't LA/NY/SEA quality, but isn't BAD either) ... knowing that 26 players are the max for USL Pro teams, 7 maximum "foreign" teams ... I figured I'd look at what it would mean to really use an USL Pro team to develop talent. Obviously there are going to be adjustments to this roster "construction" but here is what I came up with. 25 players total (with 1 roster spot available that is flexible) 7 Foreign U23 types (likely a few guys from Central America, the MLS Caribean Combine, Fluminense U23's through club partnership) 6 players loaned from MLS club (leaving 24 players for the MLS club ... obviously this would go up and down depending on the situation the MLS club is dealing with). 6 players from MLS Low Draft rounds (SKC has typically only signed 1 player they have drafted per year over the last ~3 years) ... these 6 players would essentially be 2 draft picks per year that would not make the MLS team but be signed to the USL Pro club (so not every draft pick would be signed, but 2 per year ... each lasting about 3 years with the club before they either advance to the senior club or are released ... some years it may be 1, some 3, but you get the point ... the ULS roster would have ~6 players that had been drafted by SKC but not signed to the 1st team). 6 players signed out of the Academy (ideally this would be more as the Academy gets better at developing talent and SKC proves that you can play USL Pro level soccer and still take class's at UMKC/Rockhurst/local Juco, etc. ... but SKC needs to work to prove that this is possible IMO to make it an easier sell to a player risking education from professianal contracts). The 6 number is essentially similar to the drafted players ... it's more or less 2 per year for 3 years (and at the start it may be 1 player per year for 6 years or so ... because starting at 18, they'd have more time to be developed before the club pulled the plug on their professional contract ... and it may be more like 4 or 5 years, enough for them to possibly graduate as well). Either way, you look at that roster in a 3 year window. Obviously year 1 the roster will shape up with more players outside of the Academy and MLS draft than in year 3 ... but when that club is somewhat established, that could be the breakdown of the roster (give or take). It's also within the rules to use Academy players (who haven't signed a professional contract) to play up to the USL Pro club ... especially when fewer MLS loanees are available (possibly due to international absenses/injuries to the 1st team). Also ... Academy players that ARE signed to the USL Pro club can play for the Academy team (U18 most likely) as long as they still qualify by their age ... this would be good if there were more MLS Loanee's available and those players needed to find game time (possibly). I personally think SKC is a few years away from this ... but it's something to think about. I really hope they have a USL PDL team next year because I do think the Academy is producing better college level talent now and would be nice to have contact with them during the summer (especially with the KC Brass folding up shop).
I believe one of the limits on academy players is that they have to still be in high school. If they are in college they risk their eligibility. I remember 2 years ago, Pittsburgh was the first team to add academy players. I think your example of college aged players , you would need to sign them to pro contracts and maybe include an education part to their contact. Something similar Generation Adidas contracts buy at a lower price and a USL Pro contract.
That is a great point. Right now I think we are seeing some of the NASL clubs looking at younger players in the Concacaf Central American and Caribean regions that are not quite on the MLS radar as of yet. But are very happy to get a shot to come to the states or Canada. With the addition of having at least all of the 20 plus MLS clubs all having an MLS affilite. Likely owned by the major club or a hybrid format with a local ownership group taking care of marketing with their big league affiliate handling personal. So i got ya.
The 2014 updates are in the Media Guides. USL Pro Media Guide: https://files.secureserver.net/0sU1BBnWZ6Xtor Rosters USL PRO rosters consist of 26 players with 18 designated for each game. In addition to the 26 players allowed on the master roster, a team may register as many as 5 academy players. Academy players do not count against the 26 players on the master roster and are allowed to participate in all competitions. To be considered an academy player, all of the following must be in place: a) player is younger than 21 as of the official start date of the current season, b) player cannot compete (or have ever previously have competed) in any NCAA or NAIA university or college soccer program, and c) player has never been signed or registered as a professional soccer player as recognized by FIFA. The academy player must play for a club which conducts its activities within the team’s franchise territory or play for a club which has a documented affiliation with the team. Additionally, teams with MLS affiliations may use the academy players of their MLS affiliate. Academy players do count against a team’s maximum of seven foreign players. PDL Media Guide: https://files.secureserver.net/0s8rO998WnEwNQ Rosters PDL and Super-20 League rosters may consist of a maximum of 26 players, with 18 designated for each game. PDL teams are permitted a maximum of 10 foreign players on rosters. W-League Media Guide: https://files.secureserver.net/0sfgMyjo1KuccU Rosters W-League and W-20 rosters may consist of a maximum of 26 players, with 18 designated for each game. W-League teams are permitted a maximum of eight (8) foreign players on rosters.
Well of course I should have gone to the https://files.secureserver.net/ thats the obvious place on the interwebs to look for USL Pro rules and standards. Silly me.
well, Prime, I'll admit that they're tough to find. You basically have to go to the three league pages under USLsoccer and watch the scrolling banners for them to cycle to "Media Guide" But, really, they should have updated the online rules page. The real point is that the three leagues have different numbers of foreign players (including an amazing ten for the PDL), and in the 'Pro, you can go above seven using Academy players (with the full definition of Academy player as given), including the line of "teams with MLS affiliations may use the academy players of their MLS affiliate."
More than willing to be corrected on this, but doesn't NCAA men's soccer, for some reason, contain a lot of foreign players? (I guess many sports other than football do.) Would that explain that disparity? (Given most PDL players are college players?)
I did not ask if there was a restriction. I wondered if the PDL rules were more relaxed because of the abundance of international players in NCAA soccer, whose ranks make up the bulk of PDL players. If there is another reason for the PDL allowing more internationals, that's fine. Maybe there is no correlation.
I don't think there is a correlation. The only "similarities" I think we can possibly determine is the actual "level" or "tier" of each division in USSF. The international restriction could be tied to the actual reasons for the development of MLS...and maybe lower leagues. Since one of the main reasons MLS was developed, to increase the competitiveness of the USMNT, there is a need for more domestic players playing higher levels of competition. If there are more slots for domestic players, then the trickle down effect could allow for more international slots in lower tiers.
One the issues with international players that college teams have to deal with is getting players released from previous clubs teams to play in the PDL. And then in turn the international transfer of their player pass. The college teams don't have to do that. I have previously volunteered with a PDL team that had a Brazilian players. They contacted his former club about getting him released to play. The club initially wanted a transfer fee and the club had to explain that they were an amateur club and didn't have the funds for that. In the end it all worked out. But makes things interesting if done correctly.
Michigan Bucks owner Dan Duggan says that the USSF had more scrutiny on international player transfers this year. I think the Bucks had to release a player that was sitting on their bench waiting for the clearance.