USL General News thread

Discussion in 'United Soccer Leagues' started by thefishy, Sep 28, 2014.

  1. Doogh

    Doogh Member+

    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How can you tell from a device or computer screen?
     
  2. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Because your “interpretation” of what he wrote about.
     
  3. Doogh

    Doogh Member+

    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I knew exactly what he wrote about because I've read that article before and listened to his similar interviews he did with Jason Davis and TTS.

    As always you don't like other people's critiques and retort to "well acktually you didn't read the article!!!!!"
     
  4. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was going to make that point but you made it more concisely. If you're going to start a pro sports team from scratch you're going to have to invest a lot of money up front. But don't invest more than you can afford to lose.
     
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  5. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Because the article is solely about Kingston Stockade’s accounts payables for the upcoming (2018) season with a couple sidebars about their Open Cup loss, some praise for the NPSL, and a bit about what their finances mean when it comes to paying players (TL/DR: they wouldn’t cover it).

    So, forgive me if this here seems like maybe you’re talking about something completely different:
    Or if you did, maybe read it again, since what you took away from it was apparently some completely different thing than what he wrote.
     
  6. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Did you read it? THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HE TALKS ABOUT.
    He even says that his most unrealistic, lowball numbers for payroll wouldn’t add up.
     
  7. Doogh

    Doogh Member+

    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Very convenient for you to cherry pick and leave out context.

    Probably should stop carrying water for a multi-millionaire though, he for sure doesn't need to be pampered. Follows the models, that, like probably every other former NPSL, USL2 teams did to turn professional?
     
  8. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I read it all.
     
  9. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Does he mention anything unrealistic about going pro?
    Context, right.
    Yep, not doing that. Just pointing out that he understands the economics of going pro.
    No idea what you’re saying here, given the context.
     
  10. Doogh

    Doogh Member+

    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Indeed. Did Detroit City, Tormenta FC, Chattanooga FC understood the economics of going pro? He's free to stay where he's at or form a plan to turn professional.
     
  11. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    I assume that they have a plan, yes. DCFC’s seems probably the closest to Crowley’s ideal model, although he got his original business model from talking to Tim Kelly about what CFC did.
    Tormenta... I dunno. It’s hard to see how they’re not following the “start with $3 million” model, but I know there’s real estate involved so Tormenta may simply be operating outside of regular economics.
    This is the bit that I’m not understanding in your point. He doesn’t seem to think anyone owes him the opportunity to turn the Stockade professional. He’s not whining about it. He’s literally laying out that to grow more revenue, he needs more games. But to get more games, he’d have to pay the players, and to get players as good as he currently gets for free, expanding the season wouldn’t grow the revenue to cover the added expense of payroll.

    Seems pretty level headed to me?
     
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  12. Doogh

    Doogh Member+

    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1912 Doogh, Sep 17, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
    I dunno, seems pretty clueless to me. Like he's surprised by the fact that professional soccer isn't a charity.

    Year-by-year the landscape of professional soccer and soccer as a whole changes. Whoever thought that Detroit City would turn professional after years in NPSL?

    I don't think a sampling of the finances for one season two years ago changes what he plans to do in the future. He could announce plans to join NISA tomorrow and the narrative changes.
     
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  13. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    ...? He’s dispelling this myth for people! His point isn’t whining about not having enough to pay players, he’s trying to educate the exact sort of people you’re railing about, using the actual books of a real working team about what would need to happen for this to be sustainable. He’s not moaning, he’s explaining exactly why Stockade has to find more revenue sources to hit somewhere near revenue neutrality.
    Like that is literally the opposite of what he wrote. He’s literally explaining the gap between the ceiling Stockade find themselves at based on amateur players, and the reality that simply adding more games can’t cover the expense of the players necessary to play those games.
    It’s a financial report.
    He did it for two, but sure.
    He’s very clear that his goal is to try to build a sustainable pro soccer team. I would be highly surprised if he did some Riccardo Silva style “burn money on my vanity project with no business model” heel turn. I mean, maybe, I don’t know the guy personally. But his interest definitely seems to be in solving the sustainability puzzle rather than the “pro team owner” ego buzz.
    It’s obviously still just a rich man’s plaything, and requires an abundance of privilege to be able to embark on such an experiment, but he has certainly never come across as wanting to take them pro at any cost, even if that’s how he’d define it as a success.

    I mean, sure, he could. It’s a crazy world. But given that he doesn’t seem to want to lose any amount of money on the Stockade, it feels a little unlikely.
     
  14. canammj

    canammj Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    CHINO, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Reading last day or so posts on this subject really drives me crazy.

    We have a soccer free-for-all of various leagues (amateur to pro), teams coming and going, teams jumping around leagues etc and don't even get me started on college soccer.

    Am I wrong, but this happen in other countries? Or are most other countries organized in a more logical manner?
    Are other countries FA in a much more stronger position in how soccer is managed?

    What are we afraid of in this country, so more specifically, what is USSF afraid of?
    Stepping on peoples toes or did I read some where, they are afraid of anti-trust issues?
     
  15. Doogh

    Doogh Member+

    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1915 Doogh, Sep 17, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
    Well in most European countries, football federations have a more regulative role in leagues they legislate.

    US Soccer is opposite from that.
     
  16. 2in10

    2in10 Member+

    LA Galaxy, Internazionale
    United States
    Jun 19, 2016
    Sparks, NV
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe the issue is our anti-trust laws. Seems like I saw that somewhere in a discussion somewhere else on why the USSF does not have as much control as other federations.
     
  17. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But that's his problem. There is no sustainable model. Ask Randy Levine or Ellis Short.
     
  18. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    There's definitely not a "quick" one and I would probably agree that there's probably not a single, reproducible model (e.g. you luck into a cheap and perfect stadium situation). It probably also benefit from some things that could, but don't currently, exist: regional pro leagues with low fees, Medicare for all, etc.

    I also agree that he might not be able to do it in Kingston, but I do think it's possible to stay relatively revenue neutral.
    Assuming we ever get post-Covid
     
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  19. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Just to expand on this a little (especially now that I'm not trying to type it on my phone), this is absolutely how Detroit City FC and Chattanooga FC are designed to work: neither club is set up for a rich benefactor to assume sustained losses year on year. Their respective growths have been built around maintaining near-revenue neutrality, although it's also worth pointing out they they are both beneficiaries of fairly sweet stadium deals. That's not going to be a universal - and are notably absent in places like, say, Fresno, but seem to be more common than I would have expected: Little Rock, Asheville, OKC, Madison, Tulsa (until it wasn't), etc.

    As noted, COVID obviously throws a wrench in their plan, but soccer clubs are hardly unique in that regard.

    CFC might also record some unintended losses due to their timeline being accelerated due to the Red Wolves coming in.
     
  20. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What also would throw a wrench in the works is pro/rel. The panic buys or loan signings that take place whether you're trying to challenge for promotion or avoid relegation. And if a team has a bad or even mediocre season, attendances tend to drop. This is how most EFL clubs end up losing money.
     
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  21. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Possibly, but it’s not as if there aren’t disciplined owners in pro/rel pyramids.
    The thing is with these particular clubs, they don’t really have the means to spend their way into trouble like that. To be honest, I think that their supporter ownership models would help curb some of that, as well.
     
  22. Nacional Tijuana

    Nacional Tijuana St. Louis City

    St. Louis City SC
    May 6, 2003
    San Diego, Calif.
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I saw this statement just tonight (it's from last year). I always see Fresno as "Central California", not "Northern CA", so it got me thinking they're looking at another market, like Redding or somewhere? are they trying to stay in the Fresno area? Is anyone from the area and went to these matches?

    https://www.fresnofc.com/news_article/show/1072823

    Fresno's gotten to be a pretty big municipality, but I'm not sure about the metro. Be nice to get something back in the valley again. I'm remembering the Hydra (Stockton) and the Cruisers (Modesto/Turlock area).
     
  23. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Metro area sizes in the Central Valley:

    Fresno: 999k
    Bakersfield: 900k
    Stockton: 762k
    Modesto/Turlock: 550k
    Visalia: 466k
    Merced: 278k
    Chico: 219k
    Redding: 180k
    Yuba City: 176k
    Madera: 157k
    Hanford: 152k
     
  24. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    No, they're trying to move to Monterey. The owner got a deal if he fixes up CSUMB's stadium.
     
  25. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

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