USL General News thread

Discussion in 'United Soccer Leagues' started by thefishy, Sep 28, 2014.

  1. aetraxx7

    aetraxx7 Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    Des Moines, IA
    Club:
    Des Moines Menace
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am really curious about the price for RSL (et al). The expansion team cost Checketts $10 million in 2005. Charlotte was $325 million this year. RSL includes the Monarchs and Royals, as well as the academies and stadium.
    Hansen's "punishment" looks to net him hundreds of millions of dollars.
     
    2in10 repped this.
  2. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The following list has valuation based on actual share sales and Forbes November 2019 valuations.

    DC United $500M (actual) $330M (Forbes)
    Orlando City $491M $295M
    Chicago Fire $400M $335M
    Columbus Crew $150M $200M
    Real Salt Lake $???M $235M
     
    2in10 repped this.
  3. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Who owns the various facilities? You've got Rio Tinto, the Monarch's stadium, and the practice facility.
     
  4. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Rio Tinto Stadium
    Owner Dell Loy Hansen
    Operator Dell Loy Hansen

    Zions Bank Stadium
    Owner Real Salt Lake

    Utah Royals
    Owner Dell Loy Hansen

    Real Monarchs
    Owner Real Salt Lake
     
    AndyMead repped this.
  5. aetraxx7

    aetraxx7 Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    Des Moines, IA
    Club:
    Des Moines Menace
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oof. So this could end up being a half billion - billion dollar deal, depending on the breakdown of clubs and facilities?!
     
  6. canammj

    canammj Member

    Aug 25, 2004
    CHINO, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    -------------------------
    Do we consider Salt Lake City a mid-major market?
    NO MLB-NHL-NFL
    NBA and NCAA Utah big football town.
    The package of all the teams and facilities could be attractive in the sense that all the work has been done, its somewhat of a turn key operation at this point.
    I think the ultimate sales price will reflect that.
    I would also not be surprised if a group of buyers go in on this, maybe not as large as say LAFC's group, but possible.
     
    aetraxx7 repped this.
  7. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it's by far the smallest Metropolitan Statistical Area in MLS but not the smallest media market.
     
    aetraxx7 repped this.
  8. SteveUSSF_ref8

    United States
    Oct 25, 2010
    Sun City, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would look for USL Championship to ultimately end with 36 clubs. Future expansion clubs in Queensboro, Buffalo, Iowa, Rhode Island, Cleveland, Baltimore and possibility Monterey Bay (which I think will end up in League One) will off-set the lost of clubs in Sacramento, St. Louis and the moves of LA Galaxy II, New York Red Bulls II, Rio Grande Valley FC and Portland Timbers 2 to League One. The moves by these clubs is due to the operating costs are much cheaper in League One, which they believe out weights the the need to play against higher level competition. Also, I don't think East Bay will ever play a match in the Championship. Which then in turns the USL's plans to grow League One to also include 36 clubs for a total of 72 USL clubs.
     
  9. aetraxx7

    aetraxx7 Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    Des Moines, IA
    Club:
    Des Moines Menace
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    East Bay's franchise was reportedly sold to Oakland Roots.
    https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Report-Oakland-Roots-moving-to-USL-Championships-15546968.php
     
    truefan420 repped this.
  10. JDogindy

    JDogindy Member

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Will the Oakland Roots arrival in USL affect the Monterrey Bay expansion as far as territory is concerned?
     
  11. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No
     
  12. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    They aren’t all that close. I mean it’s over 100 miles from Oakland to Monterrey and almost a 2 hour drive.
     
  13. Phenix

    Phenix Member

    D.C. United
    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1813 Phenix, Sep 6, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
    Sorry guys (and gals) but NISA is the new, new, new NASL.

    Not a sustainable business model when you have makeshift teams that may or may not survive a season or more established teams using it as a catapult to USL.
     
    aetraxx7 repped this.
  14. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    This is a bad take, it's nothing like NASL. Their issues aren't remotely similar.

    The issue is more around the viability of D3 in general, which you can see USL is also struggling with. The markets/clubs you need to bootstrap the league to achieve enough momentum will see clubs in peer markets playing in a fully realized and relatively stable D2 league, with higher general costs, but regionalized competition and NISA's value proposition for those clubs is hard to maintain.

    But the problem is that USL is smothering their own D3 league in the process.
     
  15. Phenix

    Phenix Member

    D.C. United
    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1815 Phenix, Sep 7, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
    Gosh, you're in this thread too?
     
  16. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Based on the last, oh 100+ years, I would expect the size and scope of division 2 soccer in the United States to continue to fluctuate wildly for the foreseeable future. Stability and consistency are not words one should apply to any professional soccer venture in this country.

    MLS, and frankly only MLS since around Toronto FC's launch in 2007, has shown any real level of permanence and stability.

    As there is no real evidence that USL teams (at any level) can be operated on a revenue neutral basis on anything other than the odd case by case basis, I seen no reason for confidence for the kind of statement you've made. Basically each team exists as long as some rich person decides they want to own a money-losing sports team. If they can find someone to take over when they get tired of the losses, the team will continue.

    Positively, there has been an increase of teams owning their infrastructure, but it definitely doesn't get us anywhere near 36 teams.

    And let's be realistic, minor league baseball in the United States - where baseball is the national pastime and wildly popular as a spectator sport - was collapsing in the mid/late 70s, and it basically was saved by the national agreement where the major leagues basically came in took over all player and technical staff expenses. We're witnessing the next convulsion in that system right now as MLB is about to lop off a good third of the teams in the renegotiated agreement. While we'll likely see a short-term increase independent semi-pro leagues, I think we're seeing yet another in the steady reduction of D2+ baseball teams.

    I'm not suggesting the end game with soccer is like that of baseball, or even hockey, but I don't see a pathway for stability for independent minor league soccer in this country on anything other than a case by case, market by market basis.
     
    bnyc, Blando13, aetraxx7 and 1 other person repped this.
  17. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    I think even with your dire (if reasonable) forecast, we can pretty easily have a moderately stable second tier. MLS expansion will stop eventually and that leaves lots of Clevelands and Baltimores and Jacksonvilles and Indianapoli out. The west is a little harder to accommodate, I'll admit.

    It's the third division that's so hard to solve, IMO, because in order to make the economics work, you need lots of regional teams, but they're directly competing with the collegiate system for players.
     
    aetraxx7 repped this.
  18. aetraxx7

    aetraxx7 Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    Des Moines, IA
    Club:
    Des Moines Menace
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But it probably is, in all reality. Minor league hockey only started to become stable in the last 15 years or so when the IHL folded and the AHL became the official AAA league for the NHL. Stability has become stronger with more NHL teams purchasing AHL teams and relocating them to nearby (or even the same) markets. A relative few AHL teams are independently owned with short-term affiliation deals. Even Seattle will launch its own AHL team.
    Below the AHL has been chaos, but now the ECHL is recognized as the official AA league. The league is working on measured expansion to 32 with some NHL teams venturing into owning those teams as well. The owners realize that affiliation offers the best chance at survival.
    The drop to the SPHL and FPHL is precipitous with those teams playing in miniscule arenas with players below the NCAA D1 level. Like soccer the minor league hockey landscape is littered with failed leagues (CHL, UHL, WHA2, WCHL, WPHL, ACHL, SEHL since 2000) and teams.
    It's a pretty apt comparison to lower level soccer.
     
  19. SteveUSSF_ref8

    United States
    Oct 25, 2010
    Sun City, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To add stability to the third division you will see at least six MLS reserve clubs move to League One, due to operating costs. These will be Galaxy II, Red Bulls II, Timbers 2, Atlanta United 2, Real Monarchs and Union II. Granted some MLS reserves will remain in the Championship, because they value level of competition for the development of their young players over costs. These include Tacoma Defiance, Sporting Kansas City II and Loudoun United.
     
  20. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The lower tiers will always struggle as long as the leagues are closed off. Pro/Rel changes that. There will be teams that know what they are and stay but the ability to move up and down changes the dynamics. Not that we’re necessarily ready for it but it’s going to need to happen at some point.
     
  21. Phenix

    Phenix Member

    D.C. United
    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did pro/rel helped Bury or Charlton Athletic?
     
    aetraxx7 repped this.
  22. SteveUSSF_ref8

    United States
    Oct 25, 2010
    Sun City, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Once the Championship and League One are reasonably stable, pro/rel will be the next evolution of the USL and savior to lower level soccer, within the next 3 to 5 years.
     
    truefan420 repped this.
  23. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Teams fail that’s a reality. We can’t even manage to get a structure of a lower league together. There’s no stability and little incentive for people with money.
     
  24. Phenix

    Phenix Member

    D.C. United
    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1824 Phenix, Sep 7, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
    How convincing. Teams fail in pro/rel systems. No stability in USL apparently. Little incentive in Louisville City building their new soccer stadium, women's team, new academy programs, involved in a transfer market.
     
    aetraxx7 and Paul Berry repped this.
  25. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Remember that David Downs' (first NASL v2 commish) vision for a 2nd division was 18 teams averaging either 4 to 6 or 5 to 7 (I can't remember which) thousand attendances. Last season 12 USLC teams averaged more than 5,000 and 19 averaged more than 4,000, so in a way we're seeing his vision realized.

    Also the 1970s saw a huge slump in interest in baseball. The average attendance between 1970 and 1984 was below 16,000 and the move by MLB to take over all player and technical staff expenses, was a panic move.

    The way MLS moved to same USL was a lot more constructive and far less damaging to the independence of USL, and now we're seeing MLS reserve teams dropping to League 1 where hopefully they can play a part in its growth.

    I think USL will get through this season almost intact because of performance bonds and soccer specific stadiums but a second pandemic hit season could be a fatal blow to many teams.

    I don't see USLC stopping expansion until it reaches 30 teams, which it will reach easily, at which point all resources should be focused on growing League One sustainably until it can be split into viable regional divisions.

    I'm very optimistic even in a pandemic environment. I think we may see a joint MLS/USL TV contract in 2022 that provides USL clubs with a guaranteed income because that's good for the pro game as a whole.

    I noticed Atlanta paid Phoenix $100k for Adam Jan, their third choice striker, so transfers are another way for USL clubs to make money.
     
    aetraxx7 and AndyMead repped this.

Share This Page