MLS obviously vets its owners pretty well because of the amount of $ involved. If USL is doing something similar for USL 2 & USL 3 (do they do it for PDL?), then to me it is all good, if we can get these 4 levels as stable as possible, it would easily be the best time of America soccer ever. No more failing leagues, vetted owners, stadiums coming for the lower levels. I can't say we have ever been to this point before. So if these 4 levels do all this, then I am not too worried that NASL is basically deal, NISA will probably never got off the ground and NPSL, will probably just keep doing it's thing. It's too bad the differences between PDL and NPSL couldn't be negotiated to the point of a really large league that spans the whole country. Not sure what they will do if the 2 leagues above them in their pyramid don't exist
Probably the same thing they've been doing for 23 years. Be a place for college students to play during the summer. The PDL has found its niche, and has been comfortably outside any professional 'pyramid' in North America.
Right. There is no "D4" - The PDL and NPSL and other amateur college summer leagues are not part of the pro soccer "pyramid". They just aren't. They're glorified "rec" leagues full of amateur players. Greensboro Dynamo aren't going to sell their midfielder to Timbers 2, nor are they going to take on loan Charleston Battery's third choice GK. They're a world apart.
My friend was a rotational player at a D-3 school and he regularly played in the NPSL. One kid that was on his team is a regular USL player now, but he's very much the exception.
Right. Nobody considers the college wood bat summer leagues to be part of the professional baseball ladder/pyramid for a reason. Nobody is moving up or down based on ability or talent. They're where they are based on the need to preserve amateur status in the eyes of the NCAA and NAIA.
The Riverhounds have been way more coy this offseason about our annual rebrand dreams than in the past. An invite to an event on 2/16 went out today that all but says we’re getting a new crest to go with our new Adidas kits.
I KNOW they are not professional, but why can't they be situated on the pyramid for what they are? In between college and the pro levels above them? After all, the compete in the USOC and college teams don't. Our pyramid is different than the rest of the world to take into account of all the college soccer we have.
For the same reasons that the Sunday leagues aren't part of the English pyramid: BECAUSE THEY ARE TOTALLY OUTSIDE OF ANY PYRAMID. THEY DON'T WANT TO BE PART OF ANY PYRAMID. THEY HAVE NO ASPIRATIONS OF BEING A TOP LEVEL PROFESSIONAL TEAM. THEY ARE COMFORTABLE WHERE THEY ARE IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS.
They don't play a full season - It has been noted that the "Fall 2018 NASL Season" would start in August - after the NPSL season ends. Yeah, the PDL/NPSL teams compete in the USOC - but the USOC itself is now scheduled under the assumption that those teams won't get very far when it sets up its schedule. Those teams physically don't exist when you get to the USOC Final. Creighton and UConn and UCLA aren't going to release players in the middle of the season for PSA Elite to play Atlanta United in the USOC Final. We're talking about 3 month summer breaks from college soccer.
Actually the full football pyramid does include Sunday leagues. https://www.google.com/search?q=eng...AUICygC&biw=1366&bih=662#imgrc=qWJD5cYAfztSvM: Also Caps Lock does not make your argument any better.
Nope. The only way a Sunday league team "advances" out of its league is to leave the Sunday leagues and go to some other league that IS in the pyramid. The champion of a local Sunday league will be in the same Sunday league next year. Also, NONE of the pictures you linked to actually have the Sunday leagues in the pyramid, so that didn't make your argument make any sense.
Yeah, your completely ignoring the "non league" semi-professional system. Below the lowest professional league which is League 2, you have the Conference where some teams are pro and full time. The Conference North/South also has some pro/full time teams. Below that, you have divisions which are semi-pro and part time where the player's can earn $50-500 per week training twice in the evenings during the week. These team's can obviously get promoted i.e you can be playing in the Ryman Premier division and reach League 2 with 3 promotions. These "non league" divisions are full of players who have been at professional clubs at a younger age and haven't made the cut. The PDL in my opinion is and should be looked at or compared to one of those sort of divisions rather than Sunday League. Sunday League the players barely train, turn up hungover and aren't of any sort of decent standard apart from the odd fat bloke "who used to play for West Ham. In my experience of the PDL, if a player turns up who hasn't played at college, plays great for the PDL side, it would and should attract attention from USL teams in the area. We need to get away from this stigma or favoritism that occurs by USL/MLS and other pro clubs that because little Johnny plays at XYZ College it makes him a good player. If Pedro, the local Brazilian who works at the local car-wash and is the same age as Johnny who attends UCLA, turns up at a PDL side and is better than Johnny, the team should select Pedro. Unfortunately, the college kid would usually get selected. That might be what the PDL is set-up to do at the moment, but in my opinion we need to find high level places for player's to play outside of MLS/USL where they can showcase their abilities and continue to play at a high level. There are countless players now playing in the EPL who in their early 20's were playing at levels in the UK similar to the PDL. Where do these players play in the US, if not PDL/NPSL?. It's to do with the culture in the UK as well, but there is definitely a culture or in my experience I've witnessed US born players say things like "when I graduate I'll try and go pro and if not, I'll get a job at "insert company" and do that and quit soccer". Where as in the UK you've still got grown men between the ages of 25-40 doing all sorts of jobs still turning up for these non league teams on a part time wage.
Your saying the West Yorkshire div 1 is not a Sunday league? These are fully amateur team, but if they get 7 promotions they can make it to the National league (formally the conference). AFC Wimbledon came from the Combined Counties Division 1 where the average crowd was 200 before they joined the league. They could have gotten relegated potentially to a league with about 5 paying spectators. If you think that the pyramid is just Prem-Championship-League 1 - League 2- National league then you are totally wrong, That's not a pyramid, thats a ladder!. The pyramid only starts below league football, here is a better image https://www.designfootball.com/desi...lish-non-league-structure-example-forum-22102 The lower the league the more regional it is so less travel costs. It took England over a hundred years to end up like this but the USA could start the process. It won't happen overnight but the new USSF president could implement it over 10 years. My proposal would be get the USL including the remaining NASL teams to have 4 x 8 conference and below this 8 x 8 team conferences at D3 level (semi pro), Below this D4 16 x 8 team conferences (PDL level) and below this at D5 level 32 x 8 team conferences (NPSL level including all D4 leagues) with Pro/Rel. It increases competition. If MLS 2 teams don't invest in their teams they will get relegated, If a PDL team (with suitable stadium) keeps winning they can go up to D3 etc.
I like the potential there. Always felt the current one regardless of color scheme felt very minor league baseball to me. I hope your fans are happy with whatever comes out this year.
just hard to compare the PDL/NPSL to anything abroad since college soccer is a bigger deal here. these teams/leagues mostly aren't trying to be anything more than part-time things for the college offseason. It's obviously more confusing since they play in the Open Cup (and Wikipedia used to refer to them as the 4th division) but the big thing to me is that they aren't the primary club/affiliation. If some guy plays for Akron and the Michigan Bucks he considers himself a Akron player first. PDL rosters are often revolving during the year for availability and the schedule is so compressed. UPSL organization is pretty weak/mixed although there do appear to be some teams trying to be more semipro than offseason. But it's mixed. I don't think it will happen but if college soccer (or more) ever goes academic year as proposed that would also make an impact. if D1 players are playing September through April/May there will be less interest in playing PDL/NPSL.
Nope. For starters, they play their matches on Saturdays, and their teams don't play for the FA Sunday Cup. And West Yorkshire IS part of the National League System, therefore it isn't a Sunday league. Same with Combined Counties. I am well aware of what a Sunday league is, and non-league football too. Anyway, my original point still stands. The PDL isn't part of any pyramid, doesn't want to be part of any pyramid, and has a niche that has nothing to do with full season soccer. It's an (mostly) amateur U-23 summer league for college players, and sticking their clubs into a pyramid is nonsensical. The clubs of the PDL don't want to have anything to do with promotion and relegation. It's not part of their goals. So they are outside of any pyramid, just like the Sunday leagues are.
Thanks for clearing it up. I understand your reasoning and your points i.e Sunday League where I'm from (England) is close to the PDL in terms of status i.e mostly amateur, player's aren't paid etc. I think the general level of the PDL though from a "soccer aspect" is more closer aligned to the higher end of non league, especially the better PDL teams, and I think overall the PDL is a much higher standard than Sunday League with obviously a different profile of player i.e mainly young aspiring pro's, but for me, and it's a much longer and bigger discussion, it's difficult to compare or contrast anything with England or Europe because of the college aspect in the US. In England if a 18/19 year old was to say "I play for Manchester university" you'd be like "so what, who else do you play for i.e a non league team". I think the PDL can be a mix though. Around six years ago I was involved with a PDL team. There were some players there, international/foreign players who had been at pro clubs in their respective countries and not affiliated with any college who were there specifically after being invited by a link with an MLS team i.e come over and play PDL so we can get a closer look at you, and there were also college players there who had the attitude of "yeah I'll just play PDL in the summer to keep fit so I'm ready for college". I always felt the coach felt forced to play the college kids even though they didn't take it as serious because the team needed to keep the college's happy.
Maybe more USL teams could run PDL teams also? That way you might have a natural pathway i.e academy/youth run by USL team, then when they reach 18-23 years old they have somewhere to still play under the USL team umbrella, and the best ones progress to the first team? Not sure how difficult that is, but that seems to be a typical sort of progression.
Some USL clubs have run PDL and youth squads. And i believe there was a 'contract' of sorts. Players can't get paid (due to NCAA and NAIA rules), and all the 'contract' said was you couldn't play for another PDL squad THAT SEASON. From what i've seen, most college players just played for the PDL squad located near where they live or near their college. That setup works for most teams, as they wouldn't have the expense of finding a place for the players to live for the summer. Of course, I may be wrong on some of these points, and I'm sure someone will tell me if i'm wrong.
That's pretty much spot on. There are some kids who are recruited by the top tier PDL teams like Michigan and Des Moines out of region, but for the most part they play in their home or college region. Some teams are definitely more college prep while others (like Michigan and Des Moines) are run with a more professional slant, despite the player pool. The Menace find success every year with kids from Drake, Nebraska-Omaha, and Creighton at the NCAA D1 Level, Grand View and other Iowa schools at the NAIA level, and Simpson and other area schools at the NCAA D3 level. Over the last decade, a few outstanding players from other areas of the country have sought opportunities to come to Des Moines because of the way the Menace operate. It's one of the reasons why USL has been trying to get the owner to field a pro team for the last 20 years or and are currently working towards adding a USL 3rd division team.
We've since heard a new crest is definitely happening and it should be based on the Pittsburgh seal. This'll go along with completely custom kits from Adidas. The team's very excited about it. We're cautiously optimistic.