USL-2 Expansion

Hell, Omaha is too small for MLS, but that stadium would be great for a team in the Midwest Soccer League First (or Second) Division, except being owned by a college might hinder stadium revenues for a USL team, and I assume one cannot but a beer there...

 

You're the one that brought them up:
"It's sad when colleges like Creighton and U of Portland have amazing stadium and MLS and USL1 clubs still play in a handful of junk stadiums."

I was simply replying to that comment. Everybody seemed to miss that.

While those stadiums you mentioned might be amazing for college, USL2, and small crowds they would also be "junk stadiums" when consider for use in the MLS. You're comparing apples and oranges.

So, yeah, I'd love to have something like that for Cleveland in the USL.

 

I think a better overall question to ask is "Why do we have USL2 at all?"

Would we not be farther ahead with just USL1 (a continental league where air travel and ~5000 person crowds are assumed) and the PDL (a regional league where bus travel and small crowds are assumed)?

To me, USL2 seems like a glorified PDL regional group. I don't see what any owners would gain by jumping from PDL to USL2. I do see a big difference between PDL/USL2 and USL1.

 

Ummm... we have it because there is a demand for it. What do you have against the USL2? You're acting like the USL2 is causing some problem or harming something.

There's another difference as well. The PDL players are amateurs. USL2 players are paid, very little, but still paid.

I guess I'm just not getting the point of your comment. It seems like you're calling for the end of the USL2 simple because you don't like it.

 

Basically the USL 2 is a stepping stone from PDL to USL 1 or even the MLS for players and for even some clubs.
I see the USL 2 as a sort of necessary evil due to the jump from PDL to USL 1 is a HUGE one especially for a club.
It has it's part in the pyramid and does it well. It gives players a second chance at glory if they are good but just not ready for the MLS and USL 1 and are too old for the PDL. There has to be an outlet for these players and that's what the USL 2 is for. Plus, it is more of a regional league than the USL 1 (I won't bring up Bermuda) which adds to the rivalry factor.
Bascially the USL 2 is made up of owners who love the game and want to be apart of it but are unable to come up with the funds for the MLS and don't have the money for travel to Vancouver, Portland, Miami, or Montreal (again I'll leave out Bermuda).
The real question I have is what happens after the MLS makes all of it's expansion decisions. What happens to those who didn't get in? What developments will occur in the aftermath? Will a fresh new batch of clubs converge on the USL 1 and 2? Will there be a USL 2 West division? How will the NPSL and PCSL factor in? Will the USL merge with the MLS and create a MLS 2?
We'll just have to wait and see.

 

Also medium sized markets need teams, Cleveland usl1 wouldn't exist without the usl2 and pittsburgh would have no team at all, Baltimore and Charlotte as well wouldn't have teams.

Also when people say that pdl regularly beat usl2 teams in the us open cup its the very top of the pdl beating the bottom of the usl2, and the usl2 still has the upper hand.

ask the kids in cleveland if they can tell the difference between cleveland internationals and cleveland city stars, I'd bet the difference is pretty remarkable.

 

As a fan of the only club who's played both teams (let alone back-to-back in a 4-day span at home), you could tell there was a clear difference between the Internationals and the City Stars. The Internationals couldn't keep up with the Bucks' talent, but CCS, even though they fell behind, kept pushing - and eventually won. They looked probably 50 times better than the Internationals.

 

Nobody in Cleveland cares about the Internationals. I don't think the Internationals organization even really cares about the PDL team or the W-League team.

 

No. In fact, I have nothing against USL2 as it now exists although I'm not sure it really adds much to the pyramid. My comments were directed more at asking why anyone would bother pooling the stronger west coast PDL teams into a USL2-West.

I'm not sure the step from USL2 to USL1 is really all that much bigger than going from the PDL to USL1. Either way you're moving from a regional bus league to an air-travel-based continental league. The salaries for USL2 teams are so small that I'm not sure the jump from there to USL1 is noticeably different than the jump from zero (PDL) to USL1.

Why wouldn't these cities just have strong PDL teams?

In summary, I can see the very marginal advantage that a USL2 team allows you to have overagers (compared to PDL) who get paid a very small amount. For the benefit of its current teams the USL2 already exists and I certainly don't criticize it or wish it to go away. If the whole USL wants to upgrade out west, however, I think the teams would be far better off staying in the PDL or jumping all the way up to USL1. All they would see by setting up a USL2-West is higher costs (in travel and, marginally, in salary) without any bump in revenue since I really don't think the casual fan who's being ignoring the local PDL team would suddenly come out for the local USL2 team.

Put another way, if all we had today was the current USL1 and a PDL with a few very strong teams, would there be a clamour to set up a whole new division between the two?

 

apparently the casual fan who supported USL 2 club Cincy Kings deserted the team after they moved down to the PDL. In 2007 as a USL2 club the kings averaged around 1300 fans, the next year in the pdl they averaged around 170 fans. I don't know the full situation in cincy but they did see a dramatic drop in numbers. Meanwhile Richmond Kickers att. remained very similar despite dropping from USL1 to USL2.

also i didn't see as many players from pdl getting pulled up to mls and i did in the USL2, now this is partly because alot of pdl players still play in college, but there are a number who are eligible to get called up but don't get nearly the looks that the USL2 guys get.

Also the PDL teams can't include some guys (+23 guys like you said) who havent gotten a look from USL1 clubs for whatever reason, and the PDL season is six games shorter than that of the USL2 leaving an extra six week long gap for players not in college. This wouldn't be able to be changed as the PDL has to conform to the NCAA schedule.

Lastly i'm not an economical mastermind, so i don't know the full extent of the situation out west, but if so many pdl teams want to move up to create a usl2 west there must be some logical reason why... right? Then again logic is often thrown out the window in american soccer.

 

This is why I'm dying to someday see the Menace move up. Too bad there is nobody around us that could support USL2, so travel costs would be insane.

 

The Menace need to move up to USL-1. If they're drawing almost 4k in the PDL, they could probably draw even more in the First Division.

 

Part of the reason the fans dried up was not only a move from USL 2 to PDL but also a move from the Xavier University soccer field in Cincinnati over the river and into Wilder, KY and the Town and Country sports complex.

 

That's the assumption, but for some reason it isn't even talked about, outside of pipe-dreams from fans like me.

 

Let's all go in for the Powerball and win. Then we can take the Menace to first division and start at least one club in one of these cities: Oklahoma City, Omaha and Tulsa.

Ah what a wonderful pipe dream.

 

Yeah, I believe that. I just hope that it does eventually become cost effective for them to move up. They seem like a well-run organization.

 

Where is Indy in this discussion?
We must inquire a team in central Indiana.. all we have had/ getting was/is NPSL... who wants to pay to watch that? I'd rather go watch high school ball for the same price.

A few renovations at Kuntz and USL-2 must be locked up!
our market is much bigger then most USL teams. We would easily be able to pack the small 2000 seat stadium every game.