Post-match: USA vs T&T first leg

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Nov 16, 2023.

  1. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
  2. Entropius

    Entropius Member

    Feb 14, 2003
    offside
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As poor as Tillman was tonight, i'm still tempted to start him in Port O' Spain. He's better than this, and it should be a more open game on Monday, where he can show what he can do. However, the more stern side of me thinks there has to be accountability, and so Brenden should start. Whatever happens, i just hope he doesn't lose confidence.
    And yeah, Pepi has earned the start over Flo.
    If Gregg learned anything tonight, it's maybe Pepi is the better tool to use when facing a bunker.
     
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  3. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I sort of hoped we didn't score that 3rd goal. It's putting lipstick on a pig, and now it makes the roadie meaningless for evaluation.

    Arguably a 2nd goal would have rendered the return leg moot as well. But that would have been uber pathetic to only beat a 10-men T&T by 1 at home. And I'm not sure I want it to be THAT interesting. Just leave a bit of doubt in our minds, and the players. So T&T brings their best and we can see a little who performs under pressure.

    As far as this match, it was pitiful. That was mostly on the players on the field. You want to criticize Gregg, do it for not starting Pepi and BA. But that was many to most here too. I don't see any critique of the approach that would naturally lead to that outcome. The 433 or 4231 is a good formation for breaking down a bunker. The personnel was more offensive. Guys didn't execute. It got better when we changed the personnel. Though I think it was 2 up top in fairness. Unless Balogun was an inverted winger. Didn't pay attention to the detail at that point.
     
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  4. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a tough decision--if you're going to play one or the other and not both (and then not have a 3rd striker on the bench, which obviously won't change in this window). Pepi is a better target in the air, and has shown pretty consistently that he's on the same page as his teammates. He makes active runs all the time. Balogun has better on-the-ball technique (though that failed him several times today) and usually keeps tighter control of the ball than Pepi. For my money, Pepi starts on Monday and we keep pumping those short crosses from near the box to him instead of Balogun. Other opponents and circumstances will be more appropriate for Balogun. Also, what a fantastic backheel goal from Pepi today! Feels good to have two very solid and similar-yet-different-enough strikers to choose from.
     
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  5. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Member+

    Nov 10, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    My main take away is that while Gio I'd out best passer and best playmaker, Puli and Weah in some ways are more important to the team. That's not saying Gio was bad... far from it, but Puli/Weah add a directness/urgency in the attack that we lacked.

    I liked giving Paredes and Tillman looks but man they really lacked the movement of Puli/Weah and I think it hurt a lot. Jedi and Dest kept running into them. Also ended up with Balo isolated up top and Gio isolated in the middle. The link up play between the front 4 and the fullbacks was just awful. Tillman was IMO worse than Paredes mainly cause of more bad touches/passes.

    Brendan added energy and a lot of off ball stuff while Pepi gave a target striker.

    Do I think Gregg got the tactics wrong? Honestly no, but I also had much higher expectations from the back up wings to show something tonight and I rate both of the players highly so maybe I'm just disappointed cause of that.
     
  6. RossD

    RossD Member+

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    The game opened up in the 2nd half when he went back to the 433. He gambled with the 4222 and put 2 brand new players wide. The gamble didn't work. No idea how you call a brand new formation that we have never played before "his system".
     
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  7. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They jammed the middle. When we were able to get into a pocket of space, like to Tillman, he'd blow the touch. Ideally he'd cushion & chip it to the tucked-in winger just outside the d. And he could just hit a short cross. But we never got to that point. Don't think it was a strategy issue.
     
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  8. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which actions from this game were "Berhalter's plan" and which were the players disregarding the "Berhalter plan"?
     
  9. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    From a man-management point of view, I'm glad we gave Balogun a full 90 minutes tonight, instead of yanking him early. I'm sure he's getting frustrated by only having a half-plus every game, even though he's the starter.
     
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  10. Yowza

    Yowza Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Oct 23, 2019
    Arlington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And Paredes ended up pretty static, standing in that channel at the elbow I’m sure Balogun would like to run into.
    I just didn’t work.
     
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  11. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Ferriera would have bagged 5.
     
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  12. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    read my next post. and then dont reply to me, i disagree with anything youre going to say.
     
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  13. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Member+

    Nov 10, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    The more I think about, and i really did Kay it out in my post, the more I think the wing play and their lack of runs really killed... everything. I've said for a long time that I don't thin people really appreciate off ball movement enough... and I don't think Tillman/Paredes need nearly enough. Felt like there was way too many times where you'd see Gio with the ball centrally he'd turn and... there'd be nobody moving. Felt you saw it a lot better with Brendo.

    I dunno about disregard the play but Jedi said after the game that the coaches were wanting more runs into the box and those runs just weren't getting made
     
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  14. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Paredes was making the run over the top a lot. That was w/out much space to work w/, but still, if it was precise, he could have been found.

    Not that he wouldn't have blown it. So far w/ the USMNT he hasn't been the most poised. He's played spastically. He's better for his club where he has experience. This is a process.

    If Paredes was in the channel Balogun would prefer, IMO that's an issue created by Flo, of him not being versatile enough stylistically, and fitting a reasonable gameplan to break a bunker. I don't think it's his forte. He wants some space.

    Some may not want to hear it, but Ferreira may be the best bunker striker option. That's part his style, and part cuz those opponents are seldom going to be any good. Last time he played T&T of course Jesus punked them. In his absence, Pepi's an adequate stand-in. Ideally I think he fits a 2-way game, when we can create off the press and short break.
     
  15. kruck

    kruck Member+

    Jan 12, 2008
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Went to the game. First half was brutal. Second half was brutal until about the 70th.
    Don’t recall ever seeing a “good” performance from Tillman in a US shirt.

    Missing out on Pulisic sucks.
     
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  16. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also, I'm pretty sure Gregg didn't tell Dest to get pocketed by an amateur. Dest's dribbling is something that would normally help unbalance defenses. It didn't because he was rarely able to beat the first man.
     
  17. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    Some very disappointing performances.

    Gregg was poor not to adjust his setup early in the first half and should never have left Tillman and Paredes in so long.

    Everyone played so slowly.

    Maybe it’s unfair, but I expected Reyna to make a few cutting passes into the box that set up a shot. Didn’t happen.

    Sometimes Dest is the windshield, tonight he was more bug.

    Not good.
     
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  18. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    with bj? he might have.
     
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  19. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    When your players send crosses to the corner flag, put through balls 10 yards too long, shoot straight at the keeper, and need two steps to control a ball, that's not on the coach, sorry.

    It fits with what we see week after week in Europe too. Go to the play-by-play threads there and see how many good games they have.

    Only Wes, Dest and maybe Pulisic are having good seasons at a high level. Tillman has had a couple of decent games, but he benefits greatly from the team around him.

    CCV looks good against clubs that are about USL Championship in quality.
     
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  20. Yowza

    Yowza Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Oct 23, 2019
    Arlington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tip of the cap to whoever that guy was, he stood up Dest for about 80 minutes.
     
  21. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well the 4222 thing was weird, from jump. I mean, playing narrow vs a bunker just seems dumb to me. TV had Bethalter telling Paredes to get wider at 15-20 min in. So not really sure how long the 4222 persisted.

    As for starting Paredes & Tillman (over, say Aaronson and/or Pepi or LDLT), I do get it. Obviously, Tillman and Paredes are guys the staff has ID'd as guys we want to develop and integrate. While Aaronson & LDLT & Pepi would have made us better tonight, they are usually gonna be subs, and are more well known to the staff. It makes even more sense if the plan is to start them next game.

    I'd expect HEAVY rotation next game. Near total. Robinson & Richards at CB. LDLT, Aaronson, & Pepi. I think Scally & Lund are good bets. Probably Zendejas as well.

    One thing I did like is sticking with Gio centrally. I think that is his best spot, so might as well get the team used to him being there.

    The moves made (4222, Tillman & Paredes) did not work especially well, but I get it as part of the larger plan for both games & long term. As if you cannot try a thing or two vs T&T at home, when can you?
     
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  22. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think we kinda expected a cakewalk/goalfest. And while T&T were never even remotely threatening, they did defend doggedly.
     
  23. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pulisic is a high-quality player, but we have several players that can roughly fill the hole when he's out. Weah, on the other hand, is completely unique in the current, eligible player pool. There's no like-for-like-but-lesser-quality replacement for Weah. The same is true for Adams, but he is out of my thinking about team setup for now.
     
  24. metnostar

    metnostar Member

    Jun 28, 2001
    Playing a soccer match against a team that plays a bunker like that, with 10 men around there own penalty area is not a situation that happens often in international soccer or even in top domestic leagues.
    It's not easy to break down and really requires a totally different mentality and skill set than a normal game. A hallmark of the USMNT is the past has been that we have been dangerous on set pieces. Under Berhalter we are useless at them. I can't remember a single corner or free kick that resulted in a clear chance. McKennie and maybe Pepi should be real threats in the air, but there's nobody else.
    The good news is that this was a totally anomalous game. None of our opponents in Copa America or WC '26 are going to bunker like this, but we should work at being more dangerous on dead balls.
     
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  25. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Their only shot of the game, in the 94th minute, was also just their third touch within 30 yards of our goal.

    It became very very obvious what kind of game this was when T&T tried to take the ball to the corner in the 58th minute of a 0-0 game.
     

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