Post-match: USA vs. Panama 01/27/2019 [R] - Post-match

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by schrutebuck, Jan 27, 2019.

  1. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    What we saw in Phoenix as a system bypasses the center quite a bit. I don't, nor should anyone, think that this is the final form of the system. However, I do think that Berhalter will always prefer a lot of wing play and long switches.
     
  2. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Didn't read the whole thing, but repped for effort.

    Same thing applies to the Ronaldo era Brazil teams. Dunga and some crunching tacklers in defense.
     
  3. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I was just about to start a similar rant. We saw in MLS, but what he did defensively in middle of the park and occasionally out wide on Sunday was very impressive. I've long been a fan of the ground he covers and his defensive work and thought he has been over rated on the offensive side of the ball. He has proved me wrong to some degree, but what is still clear to me is that he has the potential to be a Kante type dmid and think his potential in other spots is much lower relatively. He has rare set of skills, lets use them.

    I also think Adams is better than Mckennie in that #6 role and think Mckennie gives a bit more in the advanced role. It would be great if we had a pure #10, but we dont at this point. I'd rather slot CP in there mostly for now, but also give guys like Mihialivicc some minutes to see if they can grow into the team.

    Assuming we are going to stick with this system, then we only are playing one outside back. I'd call in 5 CBs in March and 3 L/RBs. If all healthy, I'd bring in FJ, DY, and AR. They all are in different stages of their careers and all with different strengths/weaknesses. I think FJ is most suited to the role and the other two are better as wing backs. I'd split their time up evenly and let the younger guys learn from FJ.
     
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  4. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    He would play the role very differently and more effectively. Adams can absolutely make the very simple passes that make up the majority of Bradley's passes. He also can handle defensive pressure and dribble the ball to create better angles for himself. Bradley and Trapp are over rated for their passing ability and both break down under pressure. I'm not why you would want static "playmaker" when you can have a more dynamic one.
     
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  5. HouseHead78

    HouseHead78 Member+

    Oct 17, 2006
    Austin, TX
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah that’s a neat and valid opinion and lots of people share it but he’s back in the team so it matters not a bit at this point. Someone whose opinion matters more got his way and you didn’t. So per my original post, I would recommend adjusting to reality and living in the present.

    When a bad performance comes along? Well I find it’s useful to vent briefly, express my opinion about what went wrong and what could be done better next time....and then move on.
     
    Pragidealist repped this.
  6. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    The question isn't whose opinion matters more; what matters is which opinion is correct.
     
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  7. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    That's impossible to know, since in the end it boils down to "had X/Y/Z played, we would have made it to the World Cup/won game M/won cup N."

    And as everybody knows, counterfactuals are not falsifiable.
     
  8. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    You'll have to take that up with Berhalter. He has always played with a 6 launching balls to the wings. In no way is Adams that player. He would fit in better at the Lima role or the Roldan role.

    If we play a system that purely fits Adams we would play the RB system. That will be great for Adams but I have my doubts about it. It's less flexible and prioritizes the system over adjusting to the opponent. That's great for winning a league but for an NT, where you have less continuity, I just don't think it works well.
     
  9. AutoPenalti

    AutoPenalti Am I famous yet?

    Sep 26, 2011
    Coconut Creek
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He did mention, I believe, he wants to adjust his system that suits to the opponent they are facing.
     
  10. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    In GB's system, does the "6" touch the ball with more frequency that most other players? What the appropriate approximate ratio of touches between the 6, the Lima and the Roldan role? The heat chart (which I'm not really sure how to read) seems to show that the 6 touches the ball far far more frequently than other players.
     
  11. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yet that is not what we saw from Bradley in that role in GGG's first USMNT match.

    Bradley did not sit deep, he did not drop between the CBs, and Bradley was not launching balls to the wings.

    What we saw in the first match of his tenure is very different than what we saw in Columbus. All the post from folks saying how Berhalter wants to do X or 3G wants to do Y should now be thrown out the window.
     
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  12. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That was @deejay point. The RBL system might be better set up for Adams, but isn't as flexible. Berhalter wants to adjust to suit opponent, so it's possible that Adams won't always play in the way he does for RBL.
     
  13. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    That will definitely be a problem for Berhalter because we dont have an international quality player to do that right now. If his system has Bradley or Trapp in it, then he has gotten it wrong.

    If we play a system that is best for the team, it will have Adams breaking up plays all over the field, but especially centrally in front of the center backs. We get to watch Adams play again in just over 30 minutes. I'd bet TA outplays who ever Berhalter runs out in the dmid role tomorrow.
     
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  14. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    Not really. It was essentially the same as he has done it but in a 3 back system. He's done that before.
     
  15. HouseHead78

    HouseHead78 Member+

    Oct 17, 2006
    Austin, TX
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You've created a nice little rhetorical universe where it is literally impossible for you to be wrong about Bradley regardless of performance or results, but you get to complain about him and the coach if he's involved at all. You've figured out right and wrong at an absolute level, there is no subjectivity, and you are God. In this universe, the only possible perspective that is correct is your own. There's literally 0 chance you are wrong.
     
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  16. Zinkoff

    Zinkoff Member

    Jul 2, 2014
    DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The thing is, they still played with the same general 343ish shape while in attack, Lovitz just stayed deep instead of having a CM drop in-between the CBs. I have a feeling that we will see the same overall shape from game to game, but the way that Berhalter sets it up will depend on the personnel available to him.
     
    Pragidealist repped this.
  17. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    That is just my opinion based the players we have now and coming up. If either plays well, then I'd probably be wrong... the probably part is simply that we wouldn't know that the players left out couldn't perform better.

    I think I understand your argument. You think everyone should get a clean slate. I dont see how you do that with a 31 yo. I also think we should be moving on from 31 to players unless they are dominant.

    I've never been a fan of Bradley, but also havent been overly critical of him. I didnt complain about him playing 2014 or 2016 or 2017 because we didnt have better alternatives. We have alternatives and he done nothing to show he is better than he was in 2017. Trapp just isnt good enough and being captain in 2018 was a joke. Maybe people would have more patience now if it wasnt for 2017 and 2018.
     
  18. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Coming back to this, in the Panama game, no one had more touches than MB in the game (and Lima probably had 1/3 or 1/2 as many touches), so how is it that putting Adams and McKennie into playmaker roles? They won't be on the ball as much obviously.

    In your preferred setup, the "anchor" is exactly that. This position is the foundation that the team is built around and I don't think it's correct to say, "well, it's just a role and it frees up our up-and-coming players." If we go with this setup, I think it's fair to say that we're building the team around the "anchor" and if we do that wrt to MB or WT, that's a real problem IMO.
     
  19. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Was that a function of the system or a function of the players on the field? How many debuting that day? Don't you think they may have passed execesively to Bradley? In my eyes the system gives Bradley less responsibility. When Berhalter talks about the game he talks about how they were trying to make certain plays down the wing and some time it came off right but mostly it didn't.

    To me, the system is intriguing and I would like to see more iterations.
     
  20. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't use the Panama game as the de facto measuring stick. We all remember many, many games where everything went through MB and stalled the flow of the game, especially when playing against a tougher opponent where the back pass was MB's bread-n-butter.
     
  21. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    It allows those playmakers to get forward. No one is advocating putting Pulisic as the anchor, right? Because he is most impactful further up the field, even if he has less touches.

    Today Bradley is on the bench! Everyone's happy, right? ;-)
     
  22. 70runner

    70runner Member

    Jun 21, 2007
    Bradley held his own against a Panama B/C team. Swell. If he plays against CR, "everything went through MB" will include the CR midfield. He is too slow and ponderous against skilled midfielders, hence the backpass specialty. Time to move on, with pace, from the Bradley era.
     
  23. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    In general I agree.

    I think the dilemma that Berhalter faces is similar to that faced by Klinsmann and Arena with Jones and Bradley although I don't think Bradley was ever the ball winner that Adams and McKennie can be. Klinsmann tried to work with both Bradley and Jones in the lineup but there were often criticisms that one limited the effectiveness of the other. Arena's solution was to pick Bradley and leave out Jones. I hope it is obvious that neither McKennie nor Adams should be left out.

    I believe that Adams' strongest suit is his ability as a ball winner, the amazing amount of ground that he covers and I believe his best position is as a central midfielder. the issue I think is that describes McKennie as well. So the question is how do you maximize the two of them together? Is it to put both centrally where there is more overlap in their responsibilities or do you spread them out so that they cover a larger portion of the field? I am very curious to see how Berhalter decides to handle it. If he puts one in the same or similar role as played by Lima I would bet that it would be Adams. What ever he does, I am sure that he will want to maximize the huge strength that each has in common in being able to cover huge amounts of ground and be excellent ball winners. Hopefully Berhalter's choice(s) won't lead to us complaining about how McKennie and Adams are getting in each other's way like was sometimes the case with Bradley and Jones.
     
  24. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    Adams is wasted in that anchor role. That role is one that plays it safe. You want Adams in a role where he can make plays, get forward, win challenges and be impactful. That is not the role of an anchor.
     
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  25. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Not necessarily. Every 6 is different. Casamere and Kante anchor the defense but they move up and down the field a lot.
     
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