I know on this board are only US fans and I´m US fans too. But of course I live in Germany and I follow BL . So I can compare BL and MLS players - at least from my point view. I also don´t think it is always right to critize Germany or think that german players are worst then American. See I´m fan of Landon and US national team, I have never critized hard any of your player. I would never say if Podolski is better then Spector. But I would not say Spector is better then Podolski..They play for different leagues, one for BL the other for US. One is offensive player, the other is defensive. both are popular and do great job for their league and for national team. I saw yesterday the game and I saw Podolski to play in many other games in Cologne. So I know how Podolski play. He played very good yesterday. He has talent. Podolski has big future for National Team in Germany. Rememer this name for WC 06. So I did not tell Podolski is better then Spector. But even Spector is not better then Podolski. THEY ARE DIFFERENT and they have talent. Please stop to think all so anti-german here Don´t forget that on this board is between many American fans of USMNT one German and I like your team so much as you all here. your bltleo from germany
I KNOW!!!!. I just talk about him from other perspective . member of USMNT!! national team....I don´t discuss manchester United or BL here
actually spector is very composed on the ball... after adu, spector might have the best control, even better than gaven... spector played in the world cup qualifying match agaisnt jamaica and played nicely...
So what? You can also argue that Podolski would have scored many more goals if he would have played in a team with a decent midfield. To score 10 goals in his first 19 games in the Bundesliga as a 17-year old behind Cologne's crappy Midfield is not an easy thing to do. I do agree that Spector is a huge talent, maybe as talented as Lukas, maybe more, it's hard to say as it is almost impossible to compare these two. About the Rooney comparison, I don't think he anything like Podolski, they are very different players and imo Rooney is more talented. Podolski plays more like Torres.
Beat me to it. El Niño is much more of a finess guy that Prinz Poldi, is an inch taller but ~ 20 pounds (10 kilos) lighter, a totally different body type. Wayne is about the same height and the same weight as Lucas. I do also think that Rooney is more talented but Lucas may be more of a scorer. I think Podolski is rated at about $15-20M right now. Rooney went for about $45M.
It was totally relevant. Bitleo made reference to MLS...as if he played there. Big difference. And I didn't know that Podolksi had scored 10 goals in BL (I thought it was closer to 5), but that was a desperate Cologne team that played offensively, but was crazily going for 3 pts. every game (they were so far in the hole). Stick Podolski on DC United, and he'd have to give the ball up to Jaime Moreno on every attack. Look, they are both great talents and very good players. A lot is expected out of both..
I repeat I know where Spector plays...Manchester United... I talked about him as about talent for US national TEAM!!!!! hope you understand now. Maybe i mispalled it. And Spector is great talent, huge one. I repeat it again. Just we can not compare Spector with Podolski and tell that one is better then the other. Both are good excellent player.
I would like to submit that it is much easier for younger players to play at higher levels if they are forwards. Being on offense allows you to make mistakes, as long as once in a while you can do something great and score a goal. On defense you have to be perfect, because in most good professional leagues, a bad mistake by a defender will result in a goal for the other team. For these reasons trying to compare Spector and Podolski is even more difficult. One way to settle this for now is to figure out how much each one is paid, or what their transfer fee would be for each. I am guessing that Man U would charge a HEFTY fee at this point to let Spector go for good. The coaches there say he is the best defender to ever play in their youth and reserve system.
perfect comment. Playing forward is always different then beeing defense. That´s why I told we can not compare Spector and Podolski. Thank you for adding your comment.
Normally a striker can miss opportunies 30 times in a game and he scores one goal he can be the star of the game. A back can stop goals 30 times in a game and he makes one mistake an the opponent scores and wins the game he is the stiff of the game. That is the thinking. ------------------- On good national teams the striker has to play some kind of defense or they will find someone who will if the talent of the two strikers are similiar.
yes your are righ strikers are mostly heros of any game it was very good explained from you... thank you ray...so now we know that it is not possible to compare Spector and Podolski..as I told they play different position.. thank you for your part you added here... very well and easy explained.
well, maybe you and your cronies are so very intelligent, but the lot of ya obviously don't know the rules of soccer from a velvet freeze parfait the only thing borderline about that call was the one he was supposed to walk over after being properly red carded that their can even be discussion over the validity of that non-call is simply stunning... and then you come back with "well, the picture that shows him handling the ball on the line while looking at it is misleading" & "i think his arm was actually 6 degrees behind him" huh? i'm sorry, that is just the worst 'explainaway' i've ever seen please, write this down for future reference: sky is blue grass is green ice is cold fire is hot water is wet people need air dogs have fur cows give milk frings committed a red card foul in the area
Can I suggest that you go recover the Hugh Dallas retirement thread in USA Men so that we can discuss it in a more appropriate venue?
This has been discussed in depth so many times that I want to vomit. But anyway, here's one for the road... Here is the checklist the referee should mentally go through: (1) Was it ball-to-hand or hand-to-ball? Answer: ball-to-hand (2) Was the hand in an unusual position, perhaps in an attempt to gain an advantage? Answer: Difficult to say. The player's left hand was away from his side and behind him. In fact, from the video it looks like he pulled his hand back as the ball came. These are the only 2 points of fact that need be considered. Everything else is irrelevant. EVERYTHING ELSE. Any attempt to introduce other evidence would immediately label the person a bile producer. Now, there is no irrefutable, definitive conclusion that one can arrive at given the above evidence. It is simply a judgement call. Any attempt to try to say it is a definitive call would immediately label that person as a bile producer. I would say that a preponderance of the evidence (especially, ball-to-hand, hand is behind body) point to no-call on the play. However, I can certainly see how someone might argue that Frings put his hand in a position that it might block the ball. Although we cannot read his mind, the fact that his hand was behind him and not horizontally so far away from his body as to make it obvious, I would give him the benefit of the doubt. But again, that is my own judgement call, and others may disagree. Some may be mislead by certain photographs in thinking that his hand was far out to the side from him, when it fact his hand was behind him as much as it was to the side of him. One must look at the incident from several camera angles in order to judge the Z-plane position (depth) of his hand. Any perceived attack on an individual poster would be erroneous. One of the main reasons for the many disagreements on this call is that so many have misperceptions about what the Laws of the Game actually are. The handball must be deemed intentional, or it is not a foul. The consequences of the handball, or whether the handball is down at the goal line are not relevant to the discussion. The handball rule is one of the most widely misunderstood and miscalled fouls in the game. I expect this trend to continue.
all i can say is... wow 1-his arm comes off his body to touch the ball - had it not, the ball goes in 2-he is watching the ball all the way Law 12 in any event, no hard feelings whatsoever, and now back to your regularly scheduled thread...
Sorry to perpetuate this but I like the way you boiled it down, almost. I think you need to add a 1a) to your checklist as follows. 1a) If it was ball to hand, did the player have sufficient time to move his hand/arm out of the way thus avoiding intentional contact with the ball. Answer: In my opinion Frings had more than enough time to move his arm, he chose not to, thus it should have been a PK. If it was a rocket of a shot I'd agree with you completely. That is all
thank you, i'd forgotten to add that the shot was certainly no unavoidable sonic blast, and had already been touched by kahn
Difficult to say HUH? Then why the hell is Frings STANDING INSIDE THE POST RIGHT ON THE GOAL-LINE? HINT - TO GAIN AN ADVANTAGE ie TO BLOCK A SHOT. Is that sooooo hard to grasp. Look if Frings is on the halfway line and it hits his hand then maybe no foul as he isnt gaining an advantage. But he was inside the goal FOR A REASON. Geeze.
This is a fair point, however, one can always say (rightly or wrongly) that they didn't have enough time to react. At the end of the day, it's a judgement call. That's what makes this rule so frustrating, because in many cases it's not black and white. I think the spirit of the law is to let it go unless it's clearly intentional. The problem is, no matter what language is used to describe this and other similar plays, it's ambiguous. And because of that, there will always be disagreements. I just wish Berhalter had put it around Frings and with the scored tied at 1-1, anything would have been possible. If Berhalter scores, we are instantly elevated to high status in the soccer world. Because he didn't, we got relegated to coulda, shoulda, woulda.
ummm with all due respect, he did - kahn popped up to where frings handled it besides, can we really beef the guy for a sliding stretch volley?
I want to say something about the U-20 game: 70 minutes the US-players were the better team. Not so good individual players but very good team spirit and much power for first half. Best players on their side the black left (or was it the right, i forgot) defender, very fast and athletic. Adu plays two good passes but I don't think he is the wonder-player the world (usa) want to tell us also he is four or three years younger then the german players. After the first 70minutes the USA don't have enough condition and power, it hasn't nothing to do with the subtitutions or not really. German team was very weak. It was the continue of the game against Egypt. Some kind of reason could be the long season for some players like Jansen. We lost also important players like Podolski, Hampel, Sinkewiz, Gomez and some other players. Ottl was injured before the tournament. Better younger players like Dejagah, Boateng, Kruska, Polanski, Aogo and Kucekovic are not nominated. The German team hasn't really much time to prepare for this world cup.
please, write this down for future reference: sky is blue grass is green ice is cold fire is hot water is wet people need air dogs have fur cows give milk frings committed a red card foul in the area[/QUOTE] Bluedaddy - many types of dogs have hair rather than fur. That qualifier doesn't change the fact that frings committed a red card foul in the area.