USA vs. Costa Rica 9/2 - the Midfield

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by schrutebuck, Sep 3, 2011.

  1. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    It needs to be emphasized to Landon that he is essentially playing a free role. Minimal defensive responsibilities. He doesn't have to stay central. He is free to go wherever he needs to go to find space and the ball.
  2. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can deal with that. Like I said, how people see formations and such (and how they set them out) can differ a bit. Yours is probably more accurate than mine was, I just find it very difficult to say we were in a 4-3-3 with not counting Donovan as a F.

    Again, I think the most important task for any USMNT coach is to figure out how you want to deploy Dempsey and Donovan, and the rest of the offense gets built around them., and if he's healthy and returns to form, Holden.

    Howard, Holden, Donovan, Dempsey. Start with those 4 and build. And since 3 are extremely versatile, and JK hasn't seen 2, and the three outfield players still won't have played together under JK, we'll have to wait until October/November to see it, and JK will still likely be experimenting.
  3. bobunbury

    bobunbury Member

    Aug 16, 2004
    Finally, someone who understands the concept of what the 3 forwards should do in a 4-3-3. I might add that the AM is the key supporter to the 3 forwards. I didn't see that from LD
  4. phills

    phills Member

    Nov 24, 1999
    why didn't edu get subbed out for larentowicz?
  5. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LD's mental lapses are a concern, and happen more and more frequently since the WC. I think too much time in MLS has softened him mentally. Too many opportunities to relax. If he's going to be such a key for us going forward, and Klinsi is going to play him centrally, I really want to see him go to Everton full time. He'll be sharper, and won't have the mental lapses. He just seems to damn relaxed, too much of the time.
  6. jamezyjamez

    jamezyjamez Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    FC Dallas
    dempsey plays like that all the time and is in the epl, not sure there is any correlation
  7. beto07010

    beto07010 Member

    Aug 4, 2011
    Very true, I agree. It's still so early in the process, it's going to be a lot of fun to see this team develop :)
  8. JAV7

    JAV7 Member

    Jun 2, 2009
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why take Larentowicz in the first place
  9. Ghosting

    Ghosting Member+

    Aug 20, 2004
    Pendleton, OR
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow... I really did not see the same match as most of you seem to have seen. First of all, I agree with the folks who are saying that, for the majority of the match, we looked much more like a 4-1-3-1-1 than a 4-3-3. LD was playing more like a withdrawn forward than a ACM.

    In the first half we did well when Shea and Rogers created width and moved the ball quickly. In the second half, we tried to attack right down the middle of the field over and over again. We needed Shea and Rogers to create widthand pull the defense out of position.

    I was not particularly happy with Edu or Torres. They both had good moments, but they also took on defenders in bad postions, and they did not move the ball quickly enough. CRC is not a great team, and we were able to get away with that, but it is going to kill us against stronger teams.

    I thought Jozy looked great, but I continue to be unimpressed with Agudelo. I know that Harkes when on and on about how good he looked, but I think his decision-making is really poor. He needs more playing time with NY.

    I agree that Donovan didn't have a good game, but he still contributed as much, or more, to our attack as any player out there. He involved in lots of combination play that resulted in threats. He moved the ball quickly through the midfield. He missed the open look and his free kicks weren't great. My biggest problem was that he did not demand the ball enough in the midfield, but a big part of this is his teamates don't look for him. On several occassions he's calling for a short simple pass, and they are trying to take an extra touch.

    At the end of the match, when Klesjan (sp) came in Donovan seemed to move to the right wing. For the last ten minutes or so, he was hugging the touch line uncovered, and we continued to try to dribble and pass the ball into the heart of the defense rather than work the ball wide to our best crosser.

    It was very frustrating to watch.
  10. eric_appleby

    eric_appleby Member+

    Jun 11, 1999
    Down East
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I love what Torres brings to this team. He just needs a little more physical strength and a half-second quicker reaction time. Too many times still he's caught in possession and muscled off the ball.
    He needs to start against Belgium.
  11. Right Foot Planted

    Aug 11, 2007
    I honestly think that's a bit bullshit. Bradley brought him to South Africa twice, on both of those major tournament rosters. To act like he didn't respect Jose's ability or know how to use it is overstated.

    The issue is that Jose wasn't a finished product. Defensively and positionally (even his decision making when holding the ball) all have some liability. The only way to work through those things is to play regularly, but when exactly was Bob given a grace period of a year to just work on developing the team?

    FFS, he was released after a year of reaching a competitive tournament final, while trying to overhaul his backline (Ream, Goodson, Lichaj, Chandler) and sow new players into both his attack (Adu) and midfield (Jones), while posting a 5-5-4 record, and playing against Argentina, Brazil and Spain. Yet, there was a chorus -- including a consensus in the media -- that the team was in dire straits, a "slump" or even regressing.

    You need to have time with players like Torres, and moulding a team around him might come at a cost of short term results, however enticing his play (... as other players have to make up for the defensive work, and get pulled out of position, tired, etc.). There comes an entire shift in the emphasis of the team to get the best out of him, and with it a new question arises, which is, how does that make use of the other "best" players in the pool?
  12. brandonplaysguitar

    brandonplaysguitar New Member

    Apr 4, 2009
    Minneapolis, USA
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Torres and Bradley need to be CM partners in a 4-2-3-1, with Torres more inclined to bring the ball into the attacking third.
  13. Arisrules

    Arisrules Member

    Feb 19, 2000
    Washington, DC
    Holden > Torres
  14. beto07010

    beto07010 Member

    Aug 4, 2011
    I saw Holden playing in Houston and I don't see it. He is a very good player and if he comes back healthy, he will only get better. However, I feel like Torres is better. He's better on the ball, has better touch, and vision. Holden is better defensively and has more pace, but as of right now Torres is better.

    And this isn't anything new, I've been saying it since like 09', it's just that nobody listens. Actually, I get people telling me that he's too small, that he can't possibly cut it internationally. So much for the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Romario, Messi , bebeto, Maradona etc..... I know he's not in their category, but this is soccer, you don't need to be a specific height to excel.

    I realize that it's because of style of play, the typical European players value height, but you can excel with either one if you have talent. I think he's talented and he can excel.

    And I know everyone and their mother's value European soccer, but Torres has played in the club world cup, in the Sudamericana cup, and the Copa Libertadores. He's 23 and he's gained valuable experience. Has Holden been in any tournaments other than the Premier League?

    I'm not trying to diminish Holden at all, I really like him and think he can be something one day, but if we all judged things objectively, things would be different, in my opinion.
  15. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

    Jan 26, 2011
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Have you seen him at Bolton? He's been sensational. English commentators an pundits have called him one of the best CMs in the EPL.

    If he can return to his pre-injury form, he's our starting CM. Holden, Howard, Donovan, and Dempsey are the four players that are guaranteed "A" team starters.
  16. beto07010

    beto07010 Member

    Aug 4, 2011
    Actually, the game I saw was the one where he got hurt so I guess you can say I haven't seen him. Well, I hope everybody is right, I can't wait to see if he's really that great.

    Like I said, I saw him in Houston and I'll be pleasantly surprised if he's really as great as everyone says he is.
  17. fusion101

    fusion101 Member

    Jan 11, 2002
    I thought Torres was very good. He is the type of player we need in the center of the pitch. He still has moments when he gets caught in bad positions and losses the ball. But overall he is the best player we have at maintaining possession.

    I thought Edu was decent at protecting Torres when he lost the ball, but Edu seems to slow the game up too much. I haven't rated Bradley much recently but that is because his form dipped due to lack of playing time. Hopefully he becomes a starter for his club and his form picks back up to where it once was.

    If Torres and Bradley are in top form I would love to see Mike sit behind Torres.
  18. brandonplaysguitar

    brandonplaysguitar New Member

    Apr 4, 2009
    Minneapolis, USA
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd rather have Holden out wide along with Brek in a 4-2-3-1. Landon in the middle and Dempsey up front.
  19. mannycoon

    mannycoon Member

    May 13, 2009
    I think its been obvious that Torres is a good player and especially a good passer for a while. The concern I still have with him is whether is a good defender and tough enough against stronger opposition, which is important because he's more of deep playing CM rather than CAM and in this regard he's still unproven, Belgium might be a good test though; I'm also unsure about his fitness as a 90 minute player. He's definitely played well the last few games though and has earned more playing time.
  20. the Next Level

    Mar 18, 2003
    Chicago, IL
    I saw what everybody else saw also, which was a team NOT playing 4-3-3, but it did seem to for the first 20-30 min. So I'm assuming 4-3-3 was the original game plan and the team just lost the plot.

    If it was a 4-1-4-1, the team STILL lost the plot.

    Formations are not really the big deal people make them out to be. The point is that a team must be balanced and the team put out was from a personnel standpoint, but then came unhinged from a playing standpoint.
  21. chalaron

    chalaron Member+

    Aug 15, 2006
    Baton Rouge, Louisia
    good - Torres, Shea
    meh- Donovan (i think he got criticised a bit too much after this. He had some brilliant passes, though he played too slow at times)
    double meh - Edu, Rogers, kljestan (I still don't get him)

    I should be getting paid for this.

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