Post-match: USA v. Panama [R]

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by AEK21, Jun 11, 2011.

  1. ScrappytheSeal4

    Jun 5, 2010
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Considering it's Dempsey, I'd like to think yes.
     
  2. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You can see that Wondo is leaning back instead of leaning forward. That is the root of the problem. This concept is taught in U-10 leagues.
     
  3. SJTillIDie

    SJTillIDie Member+

    Aug 23, 2009
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You wouldn't be saying that if MB had finished Wondo's perfect layoff pass in the box. The guy is a baller, if he gets more minutes he will start racking up goals and assists for the nat'l team.

    Michael Jordan missed 26 game winning shots in his career. (don't get me wrong I'm not saying Wondo is the MJ of soccer I'm just saying you can't judge a guy's abilities based on one miss)
     
  4. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it's pretty amazing trying to blame a coach for a defender losing his man, another awful defender taking a chunk out of a player's leg in the box, and a forward sending a point blank shot feet over the crossbar. This is like blaming a basketball coach for a player missing a dunk.

    I agree about the flatness of the team, this is a trend with Bradley's teams over the past couple years. But extending it to the actual result is ridiculous -- this is all on the players making idiotic errors. The tactics put them in a position to take something from this game, and without the defensive brainfarts win it easily. But they blew it.
     
  5. Jeddy Rasp

    Jeddy Rasp Member

    Feb 10, 2007
    out to lunch
    well they do have a population of 3 1/2 million.
     
  6. Spry

    Spry Member

    Apr 25, 2006
    Pasadena
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Not to nit pic but I teach my U-8 Boys to strike with their knee over the ball.
     
  7. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

    Jul 11, 2006
    Thats funny i teach my boys to be ruthless in front of goal and score or you dont eat dinner.
     
  8. EL MONO MARIO

    EL MONO MARIO Member

    Apr 9, 2002
    Montevideo, Uruguay
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lifeless, limp, sad, and boring.

    That sums up the US against Panama and the US team as of late. The US got back on track against Canada but once again the US went down to Panama, did little to earn a draw and lost and again the program has egg on their face.

    Is the Gold Cup salvageable? Of course the US is the best team in concacaf... Is it? One looks at Mexico and one sees a national team re energized on a mission and looking EVERY good.

    On looks at the US and it is new faces, same boring uninspiring play...

    Will things change against Guadalope? Sure... But really now what does THIS US team prove by pounding Guadalope?

    Mexico is scoring 5 on Costa Rica, The US trembles playing against Costa Rica on home soil....

    I think we are beating a dead horse with WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE already....
     
  9. EL MONO MARIO

    EL MONO MARIO Member

    Apr 9, 2002
    Montevideo, Uruguay
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Donovan, Dempsey, Bedoya, Holden, Benny, (these guys are Possession attacking minded players who under Bradley are told to back track and help on on bunker ball defense.)

    The US HAS THE PLAYERS. But sometimes the coach no matter how good his players are loses the ship. This team just seems mentally off under Bradley. Giving up way to much possession. A team that has made it a HORRIBLE habit of being down early in games and needing to fight back. The US is NOT a WORLD CLASS team. But it is a very good team that is going in the wrong direction...
     
  10. Fiosfan

    Fiosfan Red Card

    Mar 21, 2010
    Nevada
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is Mexico that good or they got lucky in their group with easy to beat opponents.
     
  11. EL MONO MARIO

    EL MONO MARIO Member

    Apr 9, 2002
    Montevideo, Uruguay
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This question is a joke right? BOTH groups should not be difficult for EITHER team.
     
  12. MtMike

    MtMike Member+

    Nov 18, 1999
    the 417
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dude, you're harsh. I can understand taking away the orange slices and Capri-Suns, but dinner? How do you sleep at night??? ;)
     
  13. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I recommend sound-proofed rooms ;)
     
  14. CU soccer

    CU soccer Member

    Mar 28, 2005
    Panama City Beach
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly. The only realistic arguement would be for Bedoya, but even that was a pretty crap sub.
     
  15. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    In this day and age, if your attack/possession guys don't defend, you get burned. How much analysis the last couple of years has been written about how guys like Xavi and Iniesta with Barca apply all kinds of defensive pressure to force turnovers and get the ball back.

    And that's actually among Holden's best traits.

    If anything, our recent problems have been in putting TOO much emphasis on trying to possess more of the ball. We're not a possession team yet, and we're quite some time away before we will be. We can possess to a degree, but we do so by passing around the back 4 and not really threatening anybody. We've gotten away from our identity (that of being a quick-counter team), without having really found a new one to replace it yet.

    This thinking that Bob just expects his guys to defend and not attack or possess is a myth, based on an old stereotype about American players and teams, and Bob, being an American coach and not a foreigner, simply gets saddled with it. And the peanut gallery brings it up every time the coach selects a more defensively-minded solid and overall better player over the latest dribbling wunderkind (which we have a really poor track record of developing into good pros, BTW).
     
  16. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    We've seen darker days than this in the last 10 years (like WC2006), but the days are dark without a doubt. The loss of Holden (as a starter) and Feilhaber (as a late game sub) really hurts this team. I don't intend that as an excuse, it's just a statement on our lack of depth and our lack of creative players.

    That said, I think we will rebound, get second in the group, beat Jamaica/Honduras, avenge the loss to Panama and head to the finals to face Mexico. I'll stop short of predicting a win against Mexico. The team's gotta show me something before I go there.
     
  17. EL MONO MARIO

    EL MONO MARIO Member

    Apr 9, 2002
    Montevideo, Uruguay
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mark we are gonna have to agree to disagree. I feel Bob's style of play make this team lose possession. Landon Donovan, Dempsey, Bedoya, Torres, Holden, Bradley they are possession players. NOT of the caliber of Xavi, Messi, or a Gago, or Rui Costa, but they can string 5 to 6 passes together if we were so not metalized to think we are inferior. The US sometimes plays with a inferior complex and we are playing bunker ball against Costa Rica. Arena's style was conservative but also triangular for attack. He had a system in which Reyna, O'brien, LD, could string passes together to get it to McBride. When Mathis was on his A game we had much more fluid attack. Arena made us feel like a team that could compete. I mean we went to the 2006 FIRMLY believing the US was a top 10 team in the world.

    Under Bradley our team has regressed to a more 1995 approach, lets see what happens, true Bradley made have played a lot more difficult games than Arena but that inferior mentality has become a huge mainstay and that is worrying and I blame Bradley for that. This team plays way to timid for my liking.
     
  18. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Here's something I'm going to say that a lot of people are not going to like, but I'm going to say it anyway: most of the Ticos are better possession players than ours are. Overall, our guys are better, but they're better in a lot of respects that people hate hearing about when it comes to Americans, like fitness, workrate, athleticism, etc.

    Bob's first cycle team scored more prolifically than any team we've ever had. But... we also leaked more goals than we have in ages, as well.

    The thing is, does anybody think that Bob is selecting and playing Tim Ream because Bob thinks he's one of the two best lock-down defenders we have? No, he's thinking of him as a serious prospect worth playing time (maybe not anymore... we'll see) because he's calm and composed on the ball, and the lack of calmness in the back and intelligent distribution from the back was a major problem area last cycle, as absolutely everybody can see and agree on. He is trying to build more of a possession team. But there are two issues with that. Are those our players' best characteristics? I don't think so yet. And secondly... It's doubtful that Bob is the best coach to teach a possession-oriented style of play. I will agree with you that far.
     
  19. dna77054

    dna77054 Member+

    Jun 28, 2003
    houston
    On paper, when the draw was made, Mexico got the hardest group. As a seed they are playing 2 teams from the last Hex. Neither US nor Honduras is playing even one team from the last HEX.
     
  20. Trequartista10

    Apr 10, 2009
    Florida
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Possession is fine and good, so long as you can possess with a purpose and break the opposition down. This team can't. Thus the goals must come from set pieces and counters. The problem is counters require a good first ball out to players on the break. We aren't getting that anymore. Partially because teams know we don't possess the ability to break them down when they have 11 behind the ball, so there is a conscious effort to stay back, and because our guys aren't able to hit the outlet pass, or lack the balls to try it. It's a major problem that needs to be fixed.
     
  21. um_chili

    um_chili Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    Losanjealous
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Just got back from Raymond James

    Wessoman, you're much more convincing when you lose the hysteria and ad-hominems and just stick to the substance. I don't think anyone in the history of the internets has ever found an all-caps "HMM" persuasive.

    The Iran loss caused elimination from the World Cup. The Panama loss merely delayed our qualification for the quarterfinals of the Gold Cup. There's no comparison between the scale of those two outcomes, as I think any adult who was carefully observing US Soccer during the 98 Cup would agree.

    And the Panama debacle no more a guaranteed omen for WCQ failure than the Canada game was a guaranteed omen that we'll cruise through WCQ undefeated. In fact, Mexico lost by the same scoreline (2-1) to a small Central American country (Honduras) in GC 2007 and they ended up doing just fine in the eventual WCQ.

    And am I the only one who remembers that we only "beat" Panama in the GC 2005 final on the coin-flip that is a penalty shootout? Or that we had to come from behind to beat them in GC09 quarterfinals, and only after extra time? Or that we needed a last-minute, probably offside goal to tie them in WCQ semis in 2004? Panama has often given us trouble over the past decade.

    Don't get me wrong. The Panama loss sucked, and sucked hard. I have serious concerns about the future of this team. But I'm not ready to do the whole headless-chicken dance with everyone else, at least not until we see how the Gold Cup ends up.

    I'm not going to rehash the substance of the Bradley-successor debate, because it's the wrong thread. I will, however, register my astonishment that you're suggesting that I think hiring Kreis is rash. Not only did I never say any such thing, but I even sent you positive rep for making a convincing (and uncharacteristically calm and typo-free) case on Kreis' behalf.
     
  22. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If the strength of the squad is in the midfield (as I think most will agree it is ) then you play to that strength. Spain does a wonderful job of maintaining possession - but also maintaining great shape - so that when they lose possession they have players at the ready to apply pressure to regain the ball (separate from their technical skills). Now we may not be nearly as good as Spain in possession but with 5 midfielders that maintain good shape and work for each other in possession - we should have been able to dominate Panama. Our fitness and athleticism should work for us by having players move off the ball for each other .... Dempsey making wonderful runs across the field while unsupported or Bradley making 30 yard worm burning passes to Altidore is ridiculous.

    I am tired of the same old argument that we simply are not good enough to try and control the game ala possession - and build the attack logically while maintaining defensive shape.
     
  23. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    5 man midfields have been tried for the US. How did that work out?
     
  24. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know - you tell me ....

    http://www.davesfootballblog.com/post/2010/11/17/the-future-of-the-us-national-team-is-4-5-1/

    What would I do against Guadelope? I would pull Altidore and put in Agudelo but Dempsey behind him withdrawn .... put Donovan on one wing and somebody else on the other (you pick it) ....

    put two of Jones/Edu/Bradley as the defensive holding midfielders ....

    pick your back four ....
     
  25. EL MONO MARIO

    EL MONO MARIO Member

    Apr 9, 2002
    Montevideo, Uruguay
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is the most worrying how a team with this much experience cannot create goal opportunity cannot hold the ball or string more than 3 passes together.
     

Share This Page