Post-match: USA v Netherlands Round of 16

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Dec 3, 2022.

  1. Freestyle2000

    Freestyle2000 Moderator

    Feb 6, 2000
    LA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    In re: fatigue -- I'd argue two things.

    1) Rotation is important, of course. I think the problem, though, is our depth. Especially in the back line, who are you starting in place of Dest or Robinson? And in which match? And who is giving Adams a break? I don't know that an MMR(eyna) midfield really works that well.

    2) Everyone had to deal with this, so it's not an excuse. But if you accept that we have a slightly larger drop-off between our starters and our subs in some positions (back line, I'm thinking in particular), then the fact that we had one less day off between each game than the group B runner up in 2018 starts to take some toll. Again, everyone had to do this, but it hurts more on a team that may not be confident enough in its options to rotate the squad as much.

    R.
     
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  2. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    A great manager, not a strong coach. A satisfactory result.
     
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  3. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    If Tolkin was able to give some relieve minutes to Jedy, the way Dest was was given by players who probably behind Tolkin already, we might not have had that disaster area on the left today.
     
  4. DoctorD

    DoctorD Member+

    Sep 29, 2002
    MidAtlantic
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    BTW, a lot of talk on this thread about improving the competition the USMNT has to play against. How about the US, CAN, and MEX federations agree among themselves to stop scheduling qualification games where the venue and climate play a huge role. For the US, stop scheduling winter games in cold climates. And schedule all qualification games in locations where US fans will be the minority. For MEX, no more games in mile-high, polluted Azteca. I don't know what CAN can do about winter games, at least keep them in Toronto.
     
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  5. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    This made me curious about where this Netherlands side ranks, according to Elo, among the best teams we've ever faced in the modern era of the World Cup. They're up there, but it turns out the best team we ever faced (according to Elo) was in the previous World Cup we participated in -- 2014 WC champions Germany.

    1. 0-1 loss to Germany (2014) - 2084 points/3rd ranked -- increased to 2098 points
    2. 0-2 loss to Germany (1998) - 2061 points/2nd ranked -- increased to 2075 points
    3. 1-3 loss to Netherlands (2022) - 2047 points/3rd ranked -- increased to 2068 points
    4. 0-1 loss to Brazil (1994) - 2006 points/2nd ranked -- increased to 2017 points
     
  6. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Aaronson wasn't tried. Berhalter chose Wright, Sarge and Ferreira. He never tried Aatonson.
     
  7. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    He tended to make good adjustments at the half before this tournament.

    I don't know what happened today. At some point Berhalter got stuck on certain ideas and couldn't grow into the tournament.

    VanGaal had Klaasen on the bench to start the tournament. When the score was 0-0 late v. Senegal in game 1, thus threatening Dutch chances to top the group, VanGaal put Klaasen in and he assisted on Gapko's first goal and scored one himself with time running out. Next game Klaasen starts and he has contributed beautifully. Note the work he does on Nlands' first goal v. USA - it's just remarkable.

    Instead of growing the team, as great managers do within a tournament, Berhalter seemed stuck on the classic 9 model in his mind and he never thought of inventing a new strategy for the team in-tournament by starting Aaronson under Pulisic and Weah (which would have been a way of making Weah a 9 which many people were recommending).
     
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  9. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I think a 3rd cb and Adams + Moose holding would have done the trick when it comes to holding the goal scoring down but it still would have been difficult to win the game. It likely would have looked a lot like our outing in 2014 over 120' v. Belgium.
     
  10. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    To me it looked like Adams came into the game a little cheesed off about something - thoughts, anybody?
     
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  11. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Iran chose (couldn't?) play the mid block Nland played. They played low block which invited a pass like McK's to Dest to Pulisic goal.
     
  12. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    We're always passing it to someone with their back to goal, with no one making a complimentary run. We're really good at passing it into the box, then passing it back out.
     
  13. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No way 20 years ago or even 8 years ago would the Dutch decide that their best chance of beating us was to cede possession, man mark MMA in the middle to prevent them driving forward at speed all the while the Dutch would strictly play as a counter attacking threat.

    That is a level up. With this generation we have players who play in top 5 leagues and are very technical, skilled, and dangerous with the ball at their feet. Unfortunately we never created a system that put them in a position to be consistently successful.

    Maybe next cycle.
     
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  14. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada

    Really striking how
    Copa America and Olympics.
     
  15. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Imma double rep this one.
     
  16. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT

    Not if the incompetent USSF hires another MLS level coach.

    Van Gaal might have feared our players, but he shredded 3G to pieces.

    Our team is young, talented, and hungry. They just lack the necessary leadership, vision, and tactics.
     
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  17. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
  18. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Just watched the 1st goal again.

    The FREAKING ref outruns Adams. What the hell happened to Tyler in that moment?
     
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  19. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The most upsetting to me is that this is the first time in recent history that we have loss in the knockout stages of a WC by more than one goal. And this is a much better team than previous ones.
    Why it happened? because we didn't bunker. GB thought we were good enough and fresh enough to take the game to the Dutch.
     
  20. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #745 MarioKempes, Dec 3, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
    Sure he can go to the right with a softer touch and score. That's the obvious way. But as you go farther out wide, the angle gets worse. I'm telling you cutting into the left is even better, because you're already in the center of the goal. Most people would think go outside, but inside is the better choice. Haji Wright has a poor left foot, however, so he was always going right. That's the problem.
     
  21. CeltTexan

    CeltTexan Member+

    Sep 21, 2000
    Houston, TX USA
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Proud of our boys today!

    No shame in a loss to a well drilled and clinical Dutch side. Good on them and LVG. Their culture knows how to navigate a World Cup.

    The World Cup never disappoints but it sure makes one disappointed.
     
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  22. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #747 MarioKempes, Dec 3, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
    No, it's a reference to Higuain's famous play. He's still hated in Argentina today for that.

    I know you do, and we'll love you anyway. You put Romario or Ronaldo in that same position and they put the ball in the back of the net. Why? Because they have a higher soccer IQ and much better technical ability. Pulisic simply reacted like any average player might, and you see the result. The average player reacts. The great player reads the game and always has a plan.

     
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  23. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    #748 freisland, Dec 3, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
    And striker. We really can't "level up" without at least one, and hopefully a few more, top level goal threats. It's just not possible to win consistently against top teams if you can't score consistently from mistakes.
     
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  24. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT
    I think we lack clinicality and determination, more than a striker.

    Pulisic should put away his chance

    Wright should also put away his other chance from a gifted turnover

    Zimmerman should also finish his chance (or was that Ream?)

    Our lack of defensive shape was for the world to see today.

    Our winning mentality is sorely lacking. 3G is holding this team back from its full potential. You saw it against Wales and Iran. Up a goal and you pulled back, and go into defensive mode. That's a recipe for disaster.
     
  25. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC

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