Post-match: USA v Netherlands Round of 16

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Dec 3, 2022.

  1. fishmonger

    fishmonger Member

    Jul 2, 2014
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    But distance runners are unique in that regard, suggesting there is a psychological component there.
     
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  2. fishmonger

    fishmonger Member

    Jul 2, 2014
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    That is different, I'll say that. But the results are about the same.
     
  3. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Holland and England played how they had wanted to play. Iran was impacted by non-footballing related issues. Wales had aged out, but played how one would expect. It's tough to tout the US's dictating of anything.
     
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  4. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    We did it this time with a team core of U23s, essentially (well, Pulisic and McK are 24...). Next time they'll be prime age. And we have until then to find a 9 and some center backs that are close to equal of our center mids, wingers, and fullbacks.
     
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  5. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Overall: according to Elo ratings we did slightly better than expected. We started the World Cup with our Elo rating at 1798, and finished the World Cup at 1819.

    Had we lost to England but advanced (all other results being equal, we would have advanced on goal difference), our Elo rating would have been roughly unchanged in the end.
     
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  6. zlatan_but_a_car

    Botswana Meat Commission FC
    United States
    Oct 16, 2017
    okay.
     
  7. Thre are two with American passports running around in the Netherlands, Kik Pierie and Philippe Sandler.
     
  8. fishmonger

    fishmonger Member

    Jul 2, 2014
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    So after 30 years of following this team we still need to look for people abroad with some American DNA. This is exactly what I'm talkin about.....
     
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  9. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    We talk about them here, particularly Pierie. I don't know if he's interested in playing for us or not, honestly.
     
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  10. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Yep. It didn't end in better results, and I'd probably place this team a little below 2010 overall in terms of performance for the cycle (as in, who I think was better). But I also think we also relied a lot less on luck this group stage than we normally have.

    But I think everything bodes well for the future. Our players are young; aside from Ream, there's no one who played that is certainly out of the next WC, and of the core, definitely not. They are likely to improve; most of these guys seem driven and hardworkers. We also have reason to believe in an overall increase in depth.

    Just need to make the right hire and see how it goes.

    .
     
  11. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Almost every other side does, too. It's a global competition, and almost everyone has them now.

    It could be worse. We could be Mexico, looking desperately for every MLS academy kid with Mexican ties they can get their hands on.
     
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  12. zlatan_but_a_car

    Botswana Meat Commission FC
    United States
    Oct 16, 2017
    It's the same in competitive weight-lifting: peak performance comes between age 26 and 30. I think it's a misconception that younger === more fit.
     
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  13. RoyNJ

    RoyNJ Member

    Sep 23, 2000
    Las Vegas, NV
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Netherlands were happy to have us passing pointlessly as they were already up 1 to 0. What a feckless first half! Just garbage.
     
  14. We have such a big number of quality CD's in age ranging from VvD age down to guys of 20 yo, that if I was them I would take the opportunity to play World cups with the USA instead of hoping for a break into the Orange Squad.
    Iirc, given the USA doesnot have to play qualifying games, they can give it a shot with the USA, as the USA only play friendlies/excercise matches and these donot count as matches that lock you in for good. So that's a great opportunity to test waters to see if it clicks.
     
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  15. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Did you miss the penetrations? We had several. We didn't finish. They were more clinical than we were... and most of us figured that they likely would be.
     
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  16. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In retrospect, I now think our upper limit in this World Cup (round of 16 exit) was likely set in March 2020. We have not only an extremely young team, but one built over an extraordinarily short time; we integrated the current generation during World Cup qualifying. Most of our players had their breakout club seasons in 2019-20. The time to integrate them into the team should have been 2020. And historically the second year is also when we've played some of the strongest friendlies of the cycle, because we always have some friendlies against top European teams preparing for the Euros. In fact, IIRC, we had the Netherlands on the schedule. Obviously no games were actually played between Camp Cupcake and November 2020, and when friendlies resumed we still maintained separate Euro and MLS squads for a while due to travel restrictions. Although the pandemic affected everyone, it hit us especially hard because we were overhauling the entire roster. It meant that we really had to wait until the middle of 2021 to start team-building, as we started 2021 with the starting lineup that finished 2019.

    And arguably you can go back even further: the youth of our 2022 roster was determined in 2011 when MLS decided to require academies to expand to age groups younger than U-16, beginning in 2012. That meant the first true academy-developed generation of players would be U-23 in 2022, and given the state of player development before MLS academies, it was almost a given that these players would overtake older generations very quickly.
     
  17. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    But in reality the Dutch would never hire Beerholder, is the problem. It's just not the culture and he would not fit the culture, so for non-footballing reasons he's a disaster. But if you simply switched them up for the one game, this Dutch team beats the US 6 out of 10, ties 3, loses 1. The ? marks were the keeper - turned out not an issue. Blind's age. Turned out not an issue v. US. And team unity - also not an issue. Dutch D is a professional group under any coach. Memphis and Frenke are playing some of the cleanest footie of their lives and Gapko hits stride at the right time for a WC cycle... There's a reason that this Oranje team has only give up goals to us and Ecuador and hasn't lost in forever, and while van Gaal is part of it, this is also just a very good team that compliments each other. Their break is simply surgical. They make some mistakes in the midfield - and can sometimes be sliced through the lines, but you have to be a pretty good finisher to make them pay. Many teams would have scored Wright's stolen backpass, but that's not on coaches. US had loads of shots, as we were ceded possession, but we don't know when to take them sometimes - that is somewhat down to coaching, but also somewhat down to personnel. We just don't have long-range shooters. Hardly ever had.
     
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  18. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    One of the problems we will face next cycle is the lack of competitive matches, but you're quite right inasmuch as that does give us the opportunity to call those guys and let them see if they enjoy it without obligating them to stay. That's how we got Musah, who started all four matches for us, even though he was fielding serious interest from Ghana, England (he was in their youth teams and they were very annoyed to lose him), and even a bit of interest from Italy. He had all of those as an option, but he enjoyed the US camps with friendly matches that he took part in.
     
  19. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #619 adam tash, Dec 3, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
    I dont know how much input Gregg gas on transfers - Im assuming he at least gives input and in some cases is decisive - but in the cases of players like luca and pepi, for example, those transfers really hurt. Luca not playing for Celta rendered him useless in qatar...when he was a revelation in wcq.....he was a shadow of hmself in spetember friendlies....that lack of playing time really hurt the team imo....as just one example.

    the usmnt manager needs to be more responsible about things like that. I dont know what was said....or what advice luca was given....but that ill-timed mved seems to have hurt his career and hurt the USMNT, for sure....but geggg took him anyway!!

    Having to scrape through qualifying hurt just as much as having to scrape through the group in qatar. this team was good enough to breeze through concacaf....and if they had, they couldve vetted more options as developed legit backups. Plus, on top of that, greggg wasted SOOOO MUCH time throughout the cycle on players that had literally zero chance of actually helping in qatar...i said it the whole time....it was maddening...watching it unfold so slowly.
     
  20. I already before the WC started mentioned in several threads we were going to bore you to death and were very hard to beat. LvG has a plan and that is if we can't win we must not lose. For that he has looked for a penalty stopping goalie, but I presume he also prepped for a shoot out. Remember in 2014 he didnot lose a match, but had to give way to Argentina by way of 1 penalty in the shoot out for the final.
     
  21. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    See my above post regarding the pandemic and its consequences for the USMNT.
     
  22. RoyNJ

    RoyNJ Member

    Sep 23, 2000
    Las Vegas, NV
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Netherlands were totally set up for this.
     
  23. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    5 us defenders in the box...3 dutch attackers in the box...shamoblic defending. Thats not even including adams. they had enough players back.. poor communication and poor play from the CENTERBACKS. but yeah why is adams jogging??? because his coach ran him into the ground.
     
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  24. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Yes, they were. We all knew that going in. That surprised no one.

    But our strength is our midfield. Did you want to forego our biggest strength, cede the midfield, sit back to give more cover to the flanks, and just attack with a trio that have never been that good at counterattacking, against one of the best back lines in the tournament? We played, created chances, missed those chances, and lost to a good side who were clinical with their finishing while playing our brand of football. We were fairly good but they were better. They are better. Not by much (certainly not in the midfield), but their clinical finishing was more a function of their quality than it was some brilliant unforeseeable tactical genius.
     
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  25. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i disagree.....dutch would be lucky to win 3 out of 10 vs LvG and the USMNT. beerholder manages for draws anyway. i think it would be 3 ties. 1 dutch win. and 6 US wins if they switched manager, approx. greggis that bad.

    the Dutch basically gifted 2 goals to the US...they just didnt finish CP and Wrights 1 on 1's. Almost any other knockout round teams buries those.

    This is almost entriely on greeggg for me. the dutch really didnt play well at all. but they did play to their maximum level, though. and played much smarter overall.
     
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