Post-match: USA v Mexico

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Susaeta, Sep 11, 2018.

  1. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's so weak as to be absurd. As long as there are people of different races on the team, then any player who is not performing well could be considered to be on the team because of their race.

    Is that the standard that you want for what is/isn't good evidence for racism? Lichaj had a bad game and is White, must be racism.
     
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  2. frankburgers

    frankburgers Member+

    May 31, 2016
    wrong website. must've mixed up your tabs.
     
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  3. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nope, you just didn't like it but were fine with the statements that prompted the response.
     
  4. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    Especially since that would seem to be the logical thing to try based on all that we have seen and know.
     
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  5. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    It does require tactical positioning and smartly directly lines-of-play but it is a basic requirement that one is a ball-winner. MB was not and it doesn't appear that Trapp is at this level at least.
     
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  6. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A function of weak US winger/forward prospects, not exceptional talent.

    Chich was really talented. None of those guys come close to being as good as him.
     
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  7. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    Stewart should ask that as an interview question. Who would you choose as captain and why?
     
  8. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    I want to believe you. What game changers besides Puli, Yedlin, and Jozy were missing?
     
  9. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think that folks who did not see Jones in his prime underestimate just how good he really was. In the 2008 season Jones was considered the best CM in the BuLi and was a world class soccer athlete who was measured at 35 kph, could run for 90 minutes, and was famous for making box-to-box sprints after the 80 min mark when everyone else had dead legs.

    Weston is not the same kind of stud athlete and the expectation that he would be another JJ13 is quickly leaving 04 fans. Weston has the mentality and a supreme work-ethic but lacks JJ's speed and quickness, especially recovery speed. McKennie already has better tight space control than even pre-injury Jones.

    Adams is close to Jones in the pace/quickness/work-rate attributes but clearly does not have Jones' size or strength. As hard as it is for a Schalke homer to admit, I believe that Adams will likely be a more successful BuLi CM than McKennie.
     
  10. frankburgers

    frankburgers Member+

    May 31, 2016
    Jermaine Jones is a best XI all time USMNT player.
     
  11. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    Yeah, I got it, but Lichaj does not play game after game after weak performances, and in fact, he was subbed out, not named captain and starting over and over again. But I agree, it is not racism. Trapp should be out of the lineup now, though. We have seen enough, he is not international quality.
     
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  12. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Williams Huddersfield? McKennie Schalke? Dax Chicago? Bedoya Philly? Alexander Houston? are all players who have USMNT caps.
     
  13. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Do you agree that he appears to be a lock starter?
     
  14. napper

    napper Member+

    Jan 14, 2014
    Fullerton
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought our attack improved because McKennie got hurt and Dave was forced to put Green in.
     
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  15. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, you don't get it, clearly.
     
  16. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think there may be something to the theory. From Bob thru Bruce, they always seemed to be protecting Bradley and Jones from competition, keeping a spot warm for their return. It made no sense they wouldn't play Holden in cm initially, then eventually Geoff Cameron. Danny Williams was also often conspicuous in his absence. These days Roldan, in spite of being arguably the biggest American standout in MLS, pretty much only plays wide and for a few minutes at a time these days.

    Generally I appreciate the diamond formation for our personnel, but to play it in Trinidad was irrational given we needed to 2 in front of the back-line to protect from being scored upon when a tie would have sufficed. Us playing the 433 is situationally dependent on if it's going to be reduced to a 451 or not which it often would. And 4141 just hasn't fit our personnel plus makes even less sense if we play tough opponents or organized ones.

    At the end it seemingly always comes back to the belief that we couldn't function without Bradley and/or Jones so bemoaning their permanent presence was unwarranted. Gotta welcome them back with open arms. Does anybody really believe that has been true over an 8-yr period?

    It comes down to confirmation biases and personal relationships with other coaches and players. Really not that provocative.
     
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  17. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It didn't really improve significantly until the 2nd half. The last 5 mins were better because of the reason you describe with Green, but once Adams moved back, we could finally retain possession and sustain attacks. Previously, we tried to play through Lichaj/Moore, who were black holes in possession. Not to mention the fact that Trapp was easily marked out by Mexico's press, which prevented him from being an outlet for our CB's.
     
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  18. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was partially because we brought in a 10 period, but even more so the fact we were up a man. However, that doesn't mean Trapp hasn't also been creating dysfunction by looking for him too much to slow down the attack and then having him try to pass thru the defense like he's Xavi.
     
  19. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    So what you are saying is that Sarachan and company out coached the Mexican coaches? I find that hard to swallow but I guess it could be true. Stranger things have happened in the football world. :confused::devilish:
     
  20. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sarachan fumbled into an improved attacking display.

    Just like how JK had weird lineups that were improved with subs, this game was improved through subs, because the starting XI and formation was so godawful.
     
  21. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    ?
     
  22. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Your sophomore pol-sci class is in the other tab.
     
  23. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course it doesn't necessarily mean it's due to race.

    Make argument great again.
     
  24. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ?

    If I have to explain, then you don't get it. Players get played despite fan objections. Why did JK keep capping Bobby Wood? Why did he play Green despite the fact that he was a BMU reserve player? Why did Michael Bradley start and play every minute of the cycle last year (51/54 games since the World Cup that he was available for)? Why did Jordan Morris get caps under JK as someone that he saw in a scrimmage @ Stanford?

    Coaches have favorites, blind spots, or poor evaluations. Sarachan's dumb, that's why Trapp's being played so often, and in a role that hurts more than helps the team. Sarachan thinks he's a good leader, or thinks that the captaincy somehow will help him, so he made him captain. It's called being wrong, not everything is about race, hidden or otherwise.
     
  25. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    When Beckerman was the age Trapp is now he had just moved to RSL from the Rapids and was coming off his first cap in that year's January camp. People disliked him pretty much until 2013-14, when he was 31-32.

    The best avenue to eliminate the need for a 6 (whether sole, with an 8 next to him, or by splitting the duties between two players) is to go with 3 CB's. Which is something I think we should be doing anyway. That 3rd CB would allow Adams and McKennie more freedom to ballhawk than a 4-2-3-1 because there would be a central-ish player free to step to attackers in the gap between the midfield and the backline and it replicates the cover in transition a 6 provides (instead of a DM sliding to cover for an overlapping FB a CB just takes that space while the other two cover more central areas).

    The next biggest things people need to think about are, "What system did we just see and how should that affect my evaluations"? Formation ≠ System. Do we think we saw a well oiled Dutch/Spanish juego de posicion system out of a 4-1-4-1 like Tuchel used at the start of Pulisic's first full season? Were there ample short connecting and long field-spreading passing options? Did we see coordinated movement leading to numerical advantages in high leverage areas of the field?
     
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