USA v Jamaica - Nations League QF - November 14, 2024 PBP

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by schrutebuck, Nov 14, 2024.

  1. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    POchettino certainly has come in and made Musah a big project.
    Getting the most out of him will be hugely beneficial to the program.

    Its not like he hasn't played on the wing before. He did that at Valencia in particular.

    I don't take much from that game in a forward-looking direction from a tactical point of view(cuz the field was trash) other than it was a fight...............and the US guys were up for the fight. People can talk about the hacking on Pulisic. Of course. That's the way it goes. When Landon Donovan was by far our best play, he got that treatment too. Christian is used to it. In case people weren't watching, he also gave it back. McLaren isn't a fool. I'm sure he said to his guys "Don't let Pulsiic beat us. Give him a tough day." Of course, it was Pulisic's assist that did win us that game.
     
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  2. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    LD didn't get that treatment because he hid on the field when it got physical, except for against Mexico (we probably should have drug tested him after thise Mexico games because he was a totally different person). LD didn't have the technical ability to beat players and was more a kick and chase guy. As his career progressed, he stopped even that learned he could avoid the physical confrontations by moving the ball quickly.
     
  3. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just landed in St. Louis to watch the game live. Been 10 years since I’ve traveled to see a Nats game…

    Exited to share my perceptions on the game and team afterwords.
     
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  4. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good luck! Been awhile since I've been to one too.
     
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  5. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thank you!
     
  6. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is really hard to tell what your last sentence is supposed to mean. But as for a "kick and chase" guy, it takes a special kind of "eye" who takes a player who was magnificent in pace and placement of the ball and call it "kick and chase". It also takes a special kind of "eye" to be willfully oblivious to the many matches where Landon Donovan was absolutely the difference maker for the USMNT, from the Confederations Cup, the World Cup, and the Gold Cup.

    LD was one of the very greatest players to ever wear the USMNT uniform, and we would be blessed to have him [as well ad Dempsey, as well as Jermaine Jones] on the current team.
     
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  7. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    It infuriates me whenever I see somebody downplaying Donovan's influence on the USMNT in any thread. So I'll pick up the baton.

    The number of goals that he either scored or assisted on thru the decade from 2001 thru 2010.
    Its an absurd percentage

    There has never been a more influential player for the USMNT than Landon Donovan in that era. And by the way, he was seemingly always fit. Unlike say...........Pulisic, Weah, Reyna, or whomever from this generation. Landon Donovan was seemingly always fit.

    I don't know if people realize that Donovan, thru this summer, had the most international assists in history. Things aren't equal in terms of competition or opportunities or position or whatnot.

    I'm not saying he's as good as these players. Of course I'm not. But his influence on the USMNT is extreme. Beyond extreme. Neymar and Messi JUST passed him very recently. So he's now third all-time behind those two. Messi 60 Neymar 59 Donovan 58.

    upload_2024-11-18_12-32-9.png
     
  8. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    It infuriates me that people can't talk about him without grossly exaggerating who he was as a player and a person. If you wouldn't have compared him to CP, my post wouldn't be necessary.

    I'm glad you through that bit in about being fit. The reason he was usually fit was the same reason he didn't come close to fulfilling his potential. Everybidy knows he could coast in MLS and he did quite often. He knew when national team camps were and managed his "load" so he could be fresh for international windows. Arena has said he never knew which LD would show to practice.

    There so many things wrong with LD publicly stating in 2014 that he couldn't do all the training that was going to be expected because he knew his body. However, the fact he had been dealing with nagging injuries since the fall of 2013 kinda suggested he didnt. He was out of shape and terrible as a sub in the last friendly before the WC camp. Going on walk about while during WCQ doesn't appear to have given him the fitness base he needed before the 2013 season/GC. I get a little smile knowing that the seemingly always fit LD had his international career ended for partially not being fit.

    I doubt LD could have made it in Europe. He would never last through a season.
     
  9. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Damn autocorrect. He smartly became a much better passer and by being more of a set up guy, he avoided a lot of physicality.

    I thought it was pretty obvious and made a lot of sense as he didn't have the ability to beat people on the dribble. Being a kick and chase guy made a lot of sense with his skillset and speed.

    I`m not oblivious to anything. The issue remains that fans of his like you refuse to admit that he could be completely absent and of no help to the team throughout his career. His play at the WC was incredibly uneven.

    Don't disagree with anything in that last paragraph.
     
  10. kruck

    kruck BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jan 12, 2008
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Donovan was and should have been the first name on the team sheet for the USMNT 2000-2014.

    He was the best attacking player by a mile [outside of possibly Dempsey] and was involved in almost everything good that happened attacking wise for the USMNT in that era.

    People who want to slight LD and claim to be USMNT fans need to have their heads checked.

    Whenever LD was absent from the USMNT in that era it was so abundantly clear how much he meant to the team. He was irreplaceable.
     
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  11. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    He was up until 2013. He made personal blunder after personal blunder and the absence he created, showed everyone they could perform without him.

    Not sure why folks can't accept reality. On average he is one of the best USMNT players ever, but that average was made up a huge range of performances. The few times he was at his best, he was unbelievably good. At his worst, he was so bad that he hurt the team. Arena built the 2006 team around him and he only showed up for one game. His performances in the other two games were embarrassing.
     
  12. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I suppose it depends on what you mean by "greats" They definitely made it count when playing for us. But I must agree about LD style being more of a kick and chase, a typical USA player from that era. I should know, I saw him many times in his youth in the Inland Empire area of southern california. It worked for him. Dempsey was more polished; he knew where to be and tried stuff to see what worked. What I didn't like about his game was his style of play. He was more about himself, many, many types he could have passed the ball for the quick counter, but instead he held the ball for the foul and complain. Jones was more complete all-around player, but he was a hot-headed player that would get carded more than he should. I loved his goal in the WC.
     
  13. kruck

    kruck BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jan 12, 2008
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    LD was quite polished.

    He had a fantastic touch, wonderful close control, a wonderful weight of pass, a fantastic dead ball delivery and was a cool finisher. He was also blessed with tremendous amounts of pace. All that combined was what made him so great.

    "Kick and chase" more accurately describes someone like Cade Cowell who is just a physical freak who uses his superior genetics to succeed at the highest level even though his game is pretty rough.
     
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  14. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    With that skillset, playing a kick and chase style worked real well for him. He didnt dribble players. He made quick cuts and pushed the ball into space. His game was very direct and this helped him be a very dangerous counter attacking player.

    The majority of his goals came from PKs, tap ins, one time shots, and rounding the goalkeeper. His instincts were to attack or pull up and look to move the ball.

     
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  15. RecLeague Super Sub

    Fulham
    United States
    Jun 5, 2019
    I agree with many of the takes on both sides of this argument, but I have to interject on this bit here - if a player on our national teams scores lots of goals for us, I do not care if they are a hundred tap ins or penalties. Let's not try to take away from the G/A stats if that is what you are doing). Tap ins sometimes require wise positioning by a player and effort, and LD was a helluva of a PK taker, weird routine and all, and those are not always givens despite being high Xg. Moreover, how would one demean all the assist he created over his career? Were those ALL lucky or easy?

    This discussion sometimes seems to be more of a generational pissing contest, one we don't have to delve into. I land in the camp that CP is the best ever in terms of club accomplishment and technical ability. But LD is certainly on our mount rushmore and I appreciate all he did at the national team level (and that half season at Everton). For a long period of time there, we would have been in huge trouble if not for Landon. And for all the times he took it to Mexico, we must salute him (ignoring that time he said he roots for them in an ad campaign)
     
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  16. Mantis Toboggan M.D.

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jul 8, 2017
    (checks Wikipedia)

    Huh.
     

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