Post-match: USA v Germany WC tune up

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Jun 6, 2026.

  1. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Club Med
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Haji Wright got no minutes in either game. I hope he is alright.
     
  2. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Both Malik and McKennie are better defenders than Tessman.
     
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  3. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Club Med
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They pick 'n rolled us, like Nikola Jokic and Jamal Murray.
     
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  4. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Club Med
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes. Overly simplistic, but objective.
     
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  5. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    By the strict letter of the law maybe. But in practice, I've never seen something like this specific play called back before.
     
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  6. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    You are 100% right. It's a pick play.

    Miles still has to be more aware of what is going on -- this isn't the first time he's seen a pick. Ream needs to collide the with screener and go down. This ref would have never called it but you need to make clear someone got in your way.

    But it's not a legal play.
     
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  7. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    There's two fundamental problems with them. One, linear weights models are inherently too simplistic for a complex game of interactions. But that's not the big problem.

    The big problem is that the coefficients they use aren't really tied to well to winning. I compare it to QB rating in the NFL -- the coefficients make some sense but are fundamentally made up. Models like fotmob have very clear biases because the coefficients don't really tie to winning well.

    Why did Pulisic have a bad day? 10/16 passing and 3/12 on dribbles plus 2 dispossessions and 4/18 on duels.

    Some of that is probably legit -- the passing isn't great though these models greatly overrate easy passes.

    But the big thing is that a model that is really tied to winning doesn't actually dock much for a turnover in the final third -- some final third turnovers are actually a net positive to score a goal -- and that's where Christian is getting banged here.
     
  8. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Club Med
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why wasn't Ream goal-side of Havertz?
     
  9. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #134 tomásbernal, Jun 6, 2026
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2026
    Well, the ref wasn't particularly good in this one, AND it was really well-executed. Illegal or not, I have a hard time imagining even a good ref calling that in the WC. Except that we're the home team and they might throw us some bones like that that other teams won't get.
     
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  10. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm only a little surprised that Haji didn't get any minutes in either game. In the end, I've always thought he was a distant 3rd (and would have been 4th--and out of the roster--if Agyemang didn't get hurt). He might not see any time on the field until/unless we need a goal in the last few minutes of a knockout and we throw everything at our opponent.
     
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  11. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The defense held a line for the free kick. Everyone has to remain in that line until the kick or someone risks keeping other players onside.

    The good news is that it's another data point that the coaching staff will go over with the players in training tomorrow.
     
  12. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The algos are very objective and very thorough. They will look at every single event for every single player and give consistent ratings. Unlike posters on BS, they will not miss good plays by a player the algo does not like or miss poor plays by a player they like.

    The standard algos also don't have any sense of context so they tend to rate all events the same. A great example is Kellyn Acosta's professional foul on Bale towards the end of the v Wales WC2022 match likely saved us a point yet Acosta got docked in his rating for a foul and a YC.

    Of course you can only rate events that are actually captured.
     
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  13. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The US defensive setup was really odd on that play.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1typbr5/usa_0_1_germany_kai_havertz_2/
     
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  14. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not the resident BS tactician. I do know, after watching the replay many times, that it was a good, designed play by Germany. I don't know what our team could have done better to prevent it (aside from not giving the free kick in the first place, which would be a good start, but free kicks are going to happen regardless). Can you explain what was odd about our setup on the play? I thought it looked pretty normal, but something should be better to not allow such an easy shot there.
     
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  15. Demo250

    Demo250 Member

    Mar 26, 2025
    Do you think it’s accurate to say Adams had a poor game against Germany. Know the defensive unit as a whole has been cited as a concern but there’s been more criticism about Tyler and him being out of position that I saw. Was a bit more worried since this wasn’t really exhaustion based like the Netherlands game in 2022 or the Gold Cup games. Mention that because we don’t really have anyone else.
     
  16. Ryan T Smith

    Ryan T Smith Member

    Borussia Dortmund
    United States
    May 10, 2022
    I saw a comment on a different thread (can't remember who posted it unfortunately) talking about how we played the Dutch in a tune-up game back in 2002 and how despite losing 2-0 we were playing well and it served as a massive confidence boost going into the tournament. That's what this game feels like.
     
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  17. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Great call by you on the illegal pick.

    I can't figure out the markings. Who was Freeman marking? Looks like Wes was on Tah and Nmecha was unmarked? Looks like some kind of mix up to me

     
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  18. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @Reccossu, it seems that we've met your standard for this game. You nailed it on the 2-1 loss. The only xG info I can find shows the US with 1.66 xG to 1.33 for Germany, so we beat the 1.5 xG you hoped for. And no one got injured (pending further info on ARob, but I think all is well there). There's something to work with here.
     
  19. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Club Med
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe you just stop the goal instead of worrying about an offside trap? Maybe we're using an 80s defensive strategy in 2026?
     
  20. kruck

    kruck Member+

    Jan 12, 2008
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Yea after rewatching the first goal.

    It was a well executed training ground designed set piece pick play.

    Not sure how much better you can expect Ream or Robinson to do on it.

    Ethically shaky but the ref didn’t call anything.
     
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  21. VTSoccerFan

    VTSoccerFan Member+

    Shaftsbury United
    United States
    Jun 28, 2002
    New Hill, NC
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wish Arfsten was given more minutes. I do not rate him, but he will play if the team goes far.

    I think right back looked shakier today than it did last weekend.

    I though Tillman did a better job carving up the defense last weekend than any player did today.

    I thought Pulisic paced himself today. A nice pass or too in the first half, then much more dangerous in the second half.

    I thought Dest looks very good on offense, transitions from D to O very quickly, but was easily bodied oof the ball by the Germans.

    I am not sure what to make of McKennie across these two games?

    I liked Weah's grit. The ref let this game get way too physical.

    I though Aaronson was quiet for a long time, but when he switched on he was a positive influence.

    I loved the Berhalter elastico attempt.

    I would have liked to see Haji get some minutes. I think he has something to offer in this tournament.

    I liked the corner to Jedi and a pass for a shot.

    I think Miles Robinson played for exposure. Same thought as Arfsten. I think McKenzie will start.

    I wanted to see more from Reyna. He was out there with a mixed up lineup, but one the things he is counted on to contribute is possession in tight spaces and opening up a defense that is packed in. Not sure he added much today.

    Watching the US build out of the back can be stressful. The Germans challenged that well today. The US responded well, in general. This is a key area where I think Poch favors Freese over Turner.

    I think both teams left some goals on the table. In both games, the US could have scored more. That is a positive.

    I feel better about the team and our chances after these two games. Looking forward to the cup. Go USMNT!
     
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  22. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    According to Guzan there were too many players in the wall and because of that both not enough in the penalty box and Freeze was partially blocked causing him being glued to the goal line.
     
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  23. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Unfortunately not exactly. Dutch keeper had at least a half dozen of amazing saves back then. There was a prior game with Italy when we also played really well and lost (I recall because of some stupid Regis play) that was at a similar level to this one.
     
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  24. VTSoccerFan

    VTSoccerFan Member+

    Shaftsbury United
    United States
    Jun 28, 2002
    New Hill, NC
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://nypost.com/2002/05/20/u-s-falls-short-in-last-world-cup-test/
    By Brian Lewis
    Published May 20, 2002, 4:00 a.m. ET

    Rando article about the 2002 USMNT vs Netherlands game:

    The U.S. outshot and at times outplayed a Dutch team that reached the ’98 World Cup semis, was ranked ninth in FIFA’s latest poll, and was out to prove they belonged in next month’s Cup. But two goals – one unlucky and one cheap – and Netherlands keeper Ronald Waterreus’ 11 saves sent the the team to Korea on a losing note but not a downbeat one.

    Roy Makaay scored in the 45th minute, knocking defender Eddie Pope to the ground in the box and slipping a shot under keeper Brad Friedel’s arm. The Netherlands scored again in the 76th minute after midfielder Andy van der Meyde picked off David Regis’ weak backpass to keeper Kasey Keller, who replaced Friedel at halftime. Meyde jumped over the charging Keller and scored.
     
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  25. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wirght also got married.
     
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