Post-match: USA v Belgium knockout game

I'm way behind on this thread for obvious reasons, but I'll comment on this one because I had this discussion with a non-soccer fan friend, who thought we needed better athletes.

The issue isn't: "If only our best athletes played soccer, and not other sports".

This is inaccurate because we have some elite athletes playing soccer, Exhibit A is Alex Freeman, and a lot of elite athletes in other sports are not soccer size human beings, but:

The issue is, IMO: "If only more of our best soccer sized athletes played soccer, and not other sports"

The number of elite athletes that play other sports take away from the soccer athletes on a percentage basis of our population, so that we produce less elite soccer playing athletes than we would if soccer didn't have that competition.

To give an example:

Take a random large French city, say Paris, with 100 elite athletic 8-year-olds who will grow into soccer size adults, who become professional athletes, 80 will probably play soccer.

Take a random large American city, say Miami, with 100 elite athletic 8-year-olds who will grow into soccer size adults, who become professional athletes, 5 will probably play soccer.

To rebut the argument I know is coming, let's assume that all elite athletic soccer size 8-year-olds have the same ability to develop soccer skills, with good coaching. Since this is something that we probably can't quantify.

It's pretty easy to see which city has the potential to produce more elite athletic adult soccer players. As well as which city has the potential to produce a World Class player.

One of the reasons France is so good is that they replaced the old Brazil as the team in the world that has both the best skill and the best athletic edge versus their opponents, IMO.

PS I'm doing random math, based upon my gut feelings of realistic numbers, if there is any study out there which shows anything different, I'd love to hear about it.





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At least you didn’t use integrity and FIFA in the same sentence.
TG there’s never been a football scandal in Belgium: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017–2019_Belgian_football_fraud_scandal
https://amp.foxsports.com/stories/soccer/9-arrests-in-belgian-football-fraud-match-fixing-scandal

 

A tour guide once entertained us explaining the differences between the Belgians and the Dutch.

 

You never think about us but you have bothered to hit reply on my post and written this paragraph, admitting you have spent time here. Okay.

 

I never claimed that the Belgian league never had a corruption and match-fixing scandal.
You assume I approved of that episode? Thought it was cool when it happened?

 

One of the reasons why the US isn't quite finding the most elite of football (soccer) players is the lack of understanding of what an elite football (soccer) player entails. This is evident from the ridiculous claim I hear often of 'if only our best athletes played soccer'!!

Perhaps if people in the US stopped thinking that they were somehow genetically superior and only have to kick a football around for a couple of years to become world champions it would be a start?

Statistically the 'biggest' people in the world are European.........specifically Dutch I think yet they don't come out with nonsense like.......if only our best athletes played (insert a sport here).

Arguably (and I stress arguably) rugby players are the most 'all round' athletic specimens in sport yet Antoine Dupont was NEVER going to be a better football (soccer player) than Mbappe no matter how many hours of practice he put in.

 

The irony here is that your posts claim our issue is that we ignorantly and simplistically run our soccer teams and programs based on your stereotypes or what you might see on the internet ... which of course is an ignorant and stereotypical view itself.

Yes, many casual Americans will make basic claims or think we're genetically superior or entitled to win. Even the population+money argument is clearly basic as shit.

But that's not even ONE of the reasons why we aren't elite at soccer; it's just a byproduct of core reasons.

Our soccer decision makers know damn well what makes an elite soccer player. FFS, our last two Federation Soccer Directors were Dutch and English, if nothing else, though we've known for a long time.

You have this view of Americans formed by dumbasses on the internet and have decided it's clearly the 340 million people here. But like every country, it's rare to find intelligence on the internet, they are usually doing other things.

As much as we aren't genetically superior, we also aren't all dumb as hell or ignorant. You're on a Big Soccer board; if you'd like to converse, there's good discussion here if you can get past the "I'd like to bag on Americans" you seem to perpetually start with.

 

You implied that Belgian football had never done anything dishonorable or corrupt. A quick check showed things far worse than the reversal of a red card.

You assumed that no one here knew of Belgian football corruption, or would search.

 

I’m going to suggest to that how we bring players in also leads to not great results

pay to play means you’re mostly talking rich kids, and then there is a no fun all pressure culture that is not going to get you an Erling Haaland. The mentality of identifying stars at the age of three and then putting a ton of competitive pressure on them flies in the face of everything known about childhood development

here is a think to consider: many of the future best players almost certainly left the sport. Either their families couldn’t or wouldn’t pay or they were part of the vast majority who don’t respond well to American training culture.

 

Can you explain to me how leaning on FIFA to get rid of a suspension is equivalent to individuals within Belgian clubs accepting bribes or engaging in money laundering? The F.A. can hardly be deemed to be responsible for the actions of every individual attached to a Belgian club.
True equivalency would have been if the Belgian government was found to have been involved in the corruption.

 

I don’t know about “biggest”, but Dutch are “tallest”, an attribute that does not necessarily translate to soccer. What sports do the best Dutch athletes specialize in? We see great Olympic skaters. I actually attended a Dutch men’s field hockey game once. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_in_the_Netherlands

 

Equivalent? The Belgian actions were far worse.

 

How? They were the actions of individuals within the clubs and some agents. There was no involvement from our government. Nor from the F.A.

I'm kind of baffled with the amount of people who seem okay with the idea of the government leaning on a sports league or federation to undo a suspension.

Lets say if during these NBA finals, Jalen Brunson had gotten a suspension. Lets say it was a controversial and unpopular one, like the way Amar'e Stoudamire missed a game during the 2007 Spurs-Suns series. And Trump being a N.Y. guy had called Adam Silver and convinced him to overturn the suspension. Everyone would have deemed that normal, great even?

 

So, none of the people involved had any connections to the league or federation? Belgian football has two completely different and unrelated worlds?

I’m kind of baffled with the amount of people who turn the reversal of a bad call into some big political thing.

 

Because the pressure to do so came from the administration?

 

How can the F.A. stop individuals from engaging in money laundering or match-fixing? Ideally you try to keep such people out of football, but that is easier said than done.

 

Wait, where are our 6 Premier League and La Liga players in our starting lineup?

My count is half that many in the 2 best leagues in the world…

I also think we would've been more competitive if we didn't massively shit the bed, but arguably they had more talent on paper.

 

I don't think it's that arguable. Belgium has more talent than us, but the gap between us and Belgium is less than that between Belgium and Spain. We should have shown better.

 

Yeah, because we needed another small guy getting bodied off the ball…

 

I agree, the fact that statistically the Dutch are the biggest people 'on average' is irrelevant to their prowess in football (soccer if you prefer). Some sports size helps, in basketball for example, and your size will probably dictate what position you get picked to play on the rugby field but not necessarily so with soccer (football if you prefer), helps being tall to play in goal mind. Ultimately good rugby, American football, basketball players or speedskaters does NOT mean they're going to make good footballers (soccer players).

 

Listen Ive seen with my own eyes the multiple 'if only our best athletes played soccer we'd dominate the sport' claims - Ive seen it many many times including multiple times on here! And its that particular demographic Im referring to! I will make it clear I DO NOT think 'all' Americans think this way, I know its only a percentage- probably a small percentage BUT these people clearly exist.

 

Should be if more of our athletes played soccer but even then we dont have an athlete problem.

 

Sports Illustrated WC Grades

A: Freeman
A-: Tillman, Balogun
B: McKennie, Adams, Berhalter
B-: Trusty, Richards
C+: Dest
C: Pulisic, Jedi, Pepe, Turner
D+: Ream, Gio
D: Freese, McKenzie, Miles, Scally
F; Weah, Aaronson

https://www.si.com/soccer/grading-every-player-usmnt-2026-world-cup-roster

 

Watching the Spain-Belgium match showed that Belgium were certainly a much better squad than most had thought. They gave Spain all they could handle and had chances to win that match.

I really hated that so many pundits (and fans here) said they were an 'average' team that the US should have easily beaten. Yes, the US should have played better, but there is no shame in losing to that Belgium side.

 

Yes, the issue being discussed has nothing to do with athletic prowess, no country has superior or inferior athletic abilities. I think the Nazis were probably the last 'people' tobelieve they were 'superior' based on nothing but their nationality/race.

I would suggest that it bloody hard to be top 10 in football, a VAST majority of nations have an inferior team to the USA's! Statistically the US has one of the best national teams on the planet.