USA - Switzerland Post Match Thread

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Rahbiefowlah, Jun 10, 2025.

  1. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you watch Harriel in MLS he is actually been one of the best defenders and is rated haigher than Arfsten by some services. He is a versatile defender that can play across the entire back line and is a good 1v1 lock down defender so more like Moore, Scally, and Chandler.

    IIRC v Switzerland he led us in duels, duels won, tackles, and tackles won.
     
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  2. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't see any praise there just the reality of the situation. :(
     
  3. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We have midfielders that can play that role. Tillman certainly can and PSV played him as an emergency #6 when Veerman and Schouten were out injured. Cardoso does for Real Betis.

    Passing the ball forward is not difficult for any competent professional midfielder. The problem is can you consistently make an attacking pass while under pressure? Are you press resistant, can you keep the ball and make any positive play under pressure?

    If you can't satisfy those 2 criteria then the rest does not matter.
     
  4. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #354 TheHoustonHoyaFan, Jun 12, 2025
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2025
    It is important to put the numbers in context and they are derived from video tracking so check out the entire ESPN article. For example his sprints per match have actually gone up!

    Note he has played so few minutes that you have to take his computed per 90 numbers from PFC with a grain of salt.

    These numbers, too, are low even for Reyna. His max speed had declined in each of the three previous seasons: 30.8 in 2021-22, 30.1 in 2022-23, and 28.3 last season. The sprints don't follow the same pattern, but they've also bottomed out this year: 15.6 in 2021-22, 16.2 in 2022-23, and 18.1 last season. The number of accelerations and decelerations are also the lowest they've been in any of the past four seasons.
    https://www.espn.com/soccer/insider/story/_/id/44603290/is-usmnt-fans-give-gio-reyna

    Check out his Bundesliga.com page for his official measurements. https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bundesliga/player/giovanni-reyna
     
  5. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Written on April 11 the article says this year for Gio

    • Max speed: 27.7 km/h
    • Accelerations per 90: 44.1
    • Decelerations per 90: 49.4
    • High-speed runs per 90: 74.5
    • Sprints per 90: 11.0

    Also that his max speed ranks last among all qualified Bundesliga attacking midfielders. And it's last among all Bundesliga attackers and eighth-to-last among all outfield players.

    Similarly no other attacking midfielder has sprinted fewer than 14 times per 90 minutes, and the only players who have sprinted less often than Reyna in the Bundesliga this season are six central midfielders.

    And these are the numbers for the previous three seasons max speed had declined in each of the three previous seasons: Max speed of 30.8 in 2021-22, 30.1 in 2022-23, and 28.3 2023-24. The sprints don't follow the same pattern, but they've also bottomed out this year: 15.6 in 2021-22, 16.2 in 2022-23, and 18.1 2023-24.

    So in an article a few weeks after the March window there’s some data in terms of his physical output being less compared to the previous season, which also includes the time frame of March 2024. This year he also had the slowest max speed and sprints per 90 of anyone on his own team.

    I don’t know how you can look at that and not think there isn’t a physical issue. And Pochettino’s comments from March make a lot more sense given that context.
     
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  6. kruck

    kruck Member+

    Jan 12, 2008
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    #356 kruck, Jun 12, 2025
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2025
    I see some things more clearly now I think. Thank you.

    I never said that he didn't have any physical decline over the last 3-4 years or that he has no physical issues. That's a total strawman.

    My point was that even though his physical capabilities had declined over the years and he hadn't started a game since November 1, 2023, he was still VERY effective in March 2024 with the USMNT.

    It appears as if we have TWO data points we can compare from 23/24 to 24/25. One is telling me that Reyna's "max speed" declined from 28.3 to 27.7 and the other that his sprints per 90 had gone from 18.1 to 11.

    So what should I do with this data? Say Gio Reyna shouldn't play for the USMNT? Because of a marginal drop in top speed and because he's sprinting less often per game than he was a year before? That means he shouldn't play for the USMNT?

    Do you think stats like this didn't decline over the course of Donovan/Dempsey or Pulisic's career? Of course they do. Players get older. Players get banged up. They lose some physical ability. That doesn't mean we stop playing them.

    Additionally, those same stats also declined between 22/23 and 23/24 and he was still masterful for the USMNT.

    The fact is Gio was still playing in the Bundesliga and CL in March 2025. He was still called up for the USMNT and he even still played at the end of the window.

    Were those 25 minutes against Canada all sports medicine and science would responsibly allow? Give me a break.

    He was perfectly capable of starting those games for the USMNT. Poch simply CHOSE not to start him or play him more because he's incompetently managed this USMNT.
     
  7. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The margins at the high end of the sport are very small. So even a small drop off can make a huge difference (and the number of sprints per 90 is very much not a small drop off).

    It’s notable that both on his own team and in Bundesliga as a whole he’s in the bottom in these metrics (which wasn’t always the case). And it means you can’t expect the same as you could March 2024.

    And Pochettino’s comments this March further illustrate this when he said he’s an important player for the team but not fit to play the way they expect. And this is someone with no particular animus against Gio Reyna and with no reason to not be straightforward about it.
     
  8. NYdog

    NYdog Member+

    United States
    Nov 6, 2024
    United States
    Julian Green is a prime example. If he had more pace and size, he would be a Bundesliga level player.
     
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  9. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Defensive imbalance on Tuesday wasn't due to ball progression in the middle of the field and lack of numbers in counterattack. The issue was the outside backs pinching in and long through balls on the wings which results in the defensive poorly spaced.

    Also, we shouldn't have to wait to half time to adjust. Outside backs should have gotten wider in our half after the first couple of goals.

    I liked Berhalters distribution, but I would have liked him to advance the ball dribbling. Mix it up people!
     
  10. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Defensive imbalance largely had to do with the CMs not covering for the fullbacks (namely Arfsten) when they went forward in sharp contrast to the Turkey match. Part of this was playing a very high line, part of it was Berhalter and Johnny being MIA.

    One issue with CMs that can't pass but can dribble is that to progress, they run forward. It is manageable, but in a broader sense, you'd rather have at least one passer back there so you don't HAVE to constantly bring someone forward as de la Torre was doing.
     
  11. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With Reyna I think the question is if this is a permanent physical limitation or something he can work through and get close to where he used to be. And I don’t think we have enough information for that.
     
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  12. kruck

    kruck Member+

    Jan 12, 2008
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    So what?

    Is Luca Modric, at 40, sprinting as much or as fast as he did at 21?

    If not, does that mean he shouldn’t play for Croatia anymore? Its just a nonsense argument.

    If a player has a physical decline in some categories they shouldn’t play anymore? That doesn’t even make any sense.

    All players lose physical abilities over the course of their career.
     
  13. MayaDempsey

    MayaDempsey Member+

    Jul 29, 2014
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
  14. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The attacking midfielders they project are Luna and Tillman, which seems right at this current point in time.
     
  15. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gio however is 22 not 39. And he’s never been a player close to the level of Luca Modric (who is himself not close to the player he once was and played way less for Real Madrid in recent years).

    And yes soccer is a sport where physical decline is absolutely a reason that you shouldn’t play as much.
     
  16. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    They list 7 guys at striker, winger and attacking mid: Pulisic, Weah, Balogun, Pepi, Haji Wright, Tillman and Luna.

    So Pepi, Wright and Luna.
     
  17. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    McKenzie could/should have rotated and cover for Arfsten, not just the DM. Backline could shift left or right accordingly.
     
  18. kruck

    kruck Member+

    Jan 12, 2008
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    So what if Gio is 22 and Modric is 39? That’s beside the point and you know it.

    The point is every players physical capabilities decline and that doesn’t preclude them from continuing to play.

    Why should it preclude Gio?

    There is no good reason it should preclude Gio. Even with his physical decline he is still our 2nd best attacking player.
     
  19. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    I don't think it entirely wrong, but I think they're underestimating Reyna's chances of return, and overestimating Wright's utility on the left wing.

    With a 26 man roster, I can see Tolkein finding his way in. Otherwise, Dest and Scally probably are Jedi's backups, which is quite worrying. Assuming Dest's health, of course.

    And I think they just about have Zendejas's chances pegged just about right, as a bubble guy who could just squeak in or just be cut. I think we'll probably see him in some of the next 4 windows. Four FIFA windows, and a fairly inconsequential January camp left before WC camp begins.
     
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  20. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    I hate to say it, given the near-thread jack, but the best that I think this group has ever looked when a fit Gio was playing progressive passes through the center of our midfield. We looked top 10-15-ish when we did that, and a hell of a lot better than anyone in CONCACAF.
     
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  21. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    For me the biggest question right now is how do you make a roster projection when it's pretty clear Poch's depth chart is utterly haphazard and totally asinine. Does anyone really know who the hell his XI is at this point? Or his 10 field player backups? Who's his backups to his backups? If you asked him to pick a top 35, who do you think would be in there after the top 8 or 9 guys (all field players), because honestly, I have no ----ing idea at this point, and the WC is a year away. It's insane.
     
  22. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    He's testing stuff out and figuring it out for himself as we speak. That's what we're seeing.

    His eyes aren't bad. He just has very little experience watching our players. I don't think he and his assistants have really done their homework, and he values first-hand impressions and responses to his coaching a whole lot more than tape.

    Which would be great if we had a whole cycle to work with, but we hired him after the Copa, and he didn't get to work until November. This is his fourth camp, including January.

    From this moment, he has the Gold Cup--a B+ tournament--a January camp of B/C players, and 4 FIFA windows in which to figure it out before World Cup camp begins.
     
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  23. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gio is not infallible. If he’s not the same player physically he’s not going to be the same player for the US. It’s not as if he’s shown much in the opportunities he has gotten with Dortmund.

    And the age matters because at 22 Modric hadn’t lost a step physically.
     
  24. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With Zendejas I would have just called both him and Tim Tillman and you could have left off which ever one made the CWC.

    The way I look at the World Cup is the locks if healthy are Dest, Jedi, Richards, Adams, McKennie, Pulisic, Weah, Pepi, and Balogun but everything else is up for grabs. There are others I think will be there like a Cardoso or Musah, but their spot isn’t a lock.
     
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  25. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    I remember watching the US team at the Cotton Bowl in Dallas in the prep years before the 1994 World Cup and being excited about the prospect of a rag-tag bunch of dudes putting something together that showed we belonged on that stage, and they did. They made us proud even in the loss to Brazil, which we competed in and they were so scared of us that they had to injure our best player.

    Leading up to this tournament with so many guys who are non-committed to the program…it’s shocking to see. I never thought that US soccer would ever look anything like this.

    I really hope that Luna, Tillman, LDLT, Adams, Johnny, Turner, Richards, McKenzie and co can put something together and that they can create some momentum that puts more pressure on the guys who sat out this tournament to either get their shit together or stay away. I’d rather root for those guys at home and bring back Balogun, Pepi, Dest, etc (the guys who were actually injured) than to waste more time trying to bring the Golf Crew back into the program.
     

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