USA-Mexico In and Post-Game

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by dcajedi, Sep 7, 2003.

  1. dcajedi

    dcajedi Member

    Jul 16, 2001
    Philadelphia
    While ESPN has some technical difficulties, come over to chat rom "BigSoccer" if you have AIM or AOL. If you can't get in, IM DCAJedi and I'll let you in.
     
  2. FearM9

    FearM9 New Member

    Jul 14, 2000
    On my bike
    So does Bivens miss the first WWC match since she got the red?
     
  3. RedZion

    RedZion New Member

    Aug 8, 2003
    Yes.
     
  4. dcajedi

    dcajedi Member

    Jul 16, 2001
    Philadelphia
    Really... interesting. Although I don't think she would have started regardless.
     
  5. 6thMan

    6thMan New Member

    Jan 7, 2003
    But can you just imagine how badly she feels to not be in uniform for her first World Cup Game. She plays an all out type of game and she shouldn't change anything.
     
  6. M9fanatic

    M9fanatic Member

    Oct 31, 2000
    North Side.
    Well... What was Bivens thinking? I suppose what I’m about to say will piss some people off. And at this point I don't know if it's my anti-Beat bias or the fact that the game has only been over for about 30 min. That was a horrible decision by Kylie. So let me get this straight... The team is winning 4-0, the play is made in OUR attacking third.... and she decides to go in cleats up? I could see if she was making an honest play for the ball but that replay was clear... she went for the player. No USWNT player playing in a game against Mexico has the need to something like that, with the score line 4-0 at the end of a game, with no imminent danger.

    Do you all think that might be Stones influence? And I don’t mean that sarcastically or in an antagonistic manner. I’m being serious what might have been playing in her head? Obviously it’s kind of a stupid question because there is no way of knowing. But I’m curious to know what you guys think. Was it her inner Beat, her inexperience?

    The US players on the field didn’t protest. As she was coming out the players on the sideline gave her a semi- hug. Julie stood there with her arms crossed and Bivens did not dare look her in the eyes. All the while her head was hung low. She knows she messed up. And I’m in no way trying to bashing her. I’m more interested in what played into that. Hopefully she and the other rookies learned from this. We simply cannot afford a play like that in the cup against a better opponent.

    Let me make it clear that i think her spot on the roster is warrented. And am in no way calling for her hanging.
     
  7. 6thMan

    6thMan New Member

    Jan 7, 2003

    If you have watched Bivens in college and in the WUSA, you would realize that she has always been an agressive player. I think you are right in saying that the game at hand should play in her decision but as I said, she only knows how to play one way.
    Trying to insinuate that it has something to do with playing for Tom Stone is way off base.

    Let's face it, it was a bad decision but you cannot ask a player to be less agressive in their style of play. That tough, tenacious style got her here in the first place.

    Now finally, she may be able to play in the first game of the World Cup. The fifa ruling could only be for the next Friendly. I hope that is the case??????????
     
  8. Jo

    Jo New Member

    Jan 15, 2000
    Kansas
    Are you saying she usually tackles with her cleats up?
     
  9. M9fanatic

    M9fanatic Member

    Oct 31, 2000
    North Side.

    There is nothing wrong with being an aggressive player. And there are plenty of other "agressive" players wearing the NT jersey who have never gotten carded for going in cleats up. But that is a whole 'nother conversation that i'm not trying to get into.

    Well I don't think it's way off base. If it had been a Freedom player i would have mentioned Gabarra, if it was a CyberRay i would have mentioned Sawyers. It happened to be a player who plays for Stone. You'll notice I didn't say something like "It's Tom's fault he's a bad influence", right?


    I'm not asking her to be less agrresive. Just smarter. I happen to like her style of play.
     
  10. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    No. She may miss it because April decides not to play her, but friendly reds have no carryover, just like you can't schedule a bunch of friendlies to use up a suspension.

    EDIT: The only players who might be at risk were any who were red carded in our last game in this competition - which was last fall's Gold Cup.
     
  11. Alana1079

    Alana1079 New Member

    Jun 9, 2002
    Backwoods, Florida
    From Soccer America:

    Defender Kylie Bivens was red-carded in the 83rd minute after going studs-up into UCLA star Iris Mora's knee, but it will not affect her status for the Americans' World Cup opener Sept. 21 against Sweden in Washington.
     
  12. flix

    flix New Member

    May 22, 2001
    best kept secret
    Bad play by Bivens...no disputing that. However, it was a friendly against Mexico with about 10 minutes left in the match and your team is up by 4 goals. A Much better situation than during a WWC match against a Norway or Germany.

    As far as intent, only Bivens knows that. Was it her momentum, was it pay back, was it being too aggressive? Either way, no doubt a stupid decision which Kylie will have to live with, and I'm sure April will make an example of.

    As the seventh defender on this squad, it was unlikely Bivens would see much (if any) time against Sweden. However against Nigeria that aggressive play might be just what April has in mind.

    As far as Foudy, the Vet, giving Bivens, the Rookie, a cold shoulder -- well I don't see how that helps the situation or team chemistry.
     
  13. 6thMan

    6thMan New Member

    Jan 7, 2003
    Of course not. She is just a very competitive player and the more I think about it, I think she brings a great deal of passion. Keep in mind that each of the new players are still trying to earn a starting job or more playing time so they play with a bit more enthusiasm. I attribute Bivens red card to an young players desire to do well. I am sure it shocked her more than anyone.
     
  14. M9fanatic

    M9fanatic Member

    Oct 31, 2000
    North Side.
    Well idon't think she gave her too much of a cold shoulder. What i saw was the bench giving her the sypathetic hug but Foudy (I could be wrong) just said something to her and let her get on her way to the locker room.

    It is interesting though. Foudy is the captain and it's up to her and Joy to set the tone. Sure she messed up and let the rest of the team give her a hug. But I don't think there is anything wrong with the Captain showing a bit of disapointment. I'm sure later Jules and Joy will have a positive word for her. Imagine the opposite. Imagine the Captains pampering and babying everybody.

    I'm sure in the locker room Kylie said her sorry's.
     
  15. mingyung

    mingyung Member

    Jun 7, 1999
    Well, in that case, let's hope Fawcett and Foudy gave Chastain a little bit of a talking to! Yes, it's "only" a friendly and the game was well in hand but one lapse in concentration like that at the WWC and the US could be done (shades of Chastain's own goal against Germany).

    In general, I don't think we learned too much from this game but some things did concern me:

    1) Chastain's lack of speed and lapses are minimized in a 4-back system. Notice how when Bivens was carded and they went to a 3 back, the Mexican forward was able to blow by Chastain on the left. Chastain brings a wealth of experience and fire to the team but I have to say that against certain teams I would bench her in favor of Sobrero (simply for wheels). Does Chastain have a hope in hell of running down a Mellgren breakaway?

    2) Bivens's red-card tackle was unwarranted and maybe due to lack of international experience. Hopefully, she has learned her lesson and will show better judgment in future. Her performance over the past two matches has been okay (I'm sure she will be a mainstay in the team in future) but for me she is behind Pearce, Reddick, and Sobrero on the depth chart for right back.

    3) Slaton's not playing concerns me. She hasn't seemed to be able to get all the way back from her injury and has been so inconsistent. This is sad because, when she's on, she really is the bext choice for left back--as it is, will she even get substantial minutes at the WWC? I hope, hope, that she rounds into form and we see her running fearlessly up and down the field.

    4) Boxx had another solid game but she seems most comfortable in the middle. I thought she was much less effective when Foudy moved centrally and she drifted out right. In a 3-mid system, who is benched? Lilly is a lock on the left but then we have Wagner, Foudy, Boxx and possibly Parlow as candidates for the other 2 slots.

    5) Lilly is, as always, amazing but put your hand up if her not being able to get shots on target lately worries you (my hand's up).

    6) Um, did I hear Scurry correctly when she said she has been having a recurring problem of when she falls down, she has lingering effects? Wonderful to have Mullinix as back-up but it concerns me that Scurry may be carrying an injury like this. Was only having 2 keepers a mistake?

    7) In the "too-late-now" category, I cannot help but think Heinrichs short-sighted in not having spent more time tinkering and finetuning formations. I applaud her using different tactics but has the team worked the 4-3-3 enough against "real" oppositon. Maybe the late addition of Boxx has made this formation more viable but that just goes to the point of why Boxx was not brought in earlier.

    mingyung
     
  16. phats_away

    phats_away Member

    Jul 28, 2001
    Atlanta, Ga
    scurry said that when she lands funny, sometimes her knee acts weird and it goes away in a few hours
     
  17. mingyung

    mingyung Member

    Jun 7, 1999
    Exactly. Some games, Scurry might be landing funny quite a lot making saves . . . in which case, a 3rd keeper doesn't sound like such a bad idea.

    Still, the likelihood of a 3rd keep being called upon is remote. Isn't Parlow the emergency keeper? I think I read that somewhere . . .

    mingyung
     
  18. phats_away

    phats_away Member

    Jul 28, 2001
    Atlanta, Ga
    i don't think it was the landing tho, i think it was planting her bent knee in the back of the mexican player.

    and i have all the confidence in the world that scurry will do quite fine in the wc
     
  19. UP90

    UP90 New Member

    Dec 19, 2001
    Georgia
    I was disappointed with the finishing. The score should have been much higher for USA. But the back line is really scary. This mix'n'match defense is going to bite them. I wish they would settle on a lineup for the defense and let them gel.
     
  20. flix

    flix New Member

    May 22, 2001
    best kept secret
    Ok, I got the impression from your earlier post that it was a "shun" by Foudy.

    And a few F-bombs ;)
     
  21. 352gialloblu

    352gialloblu New Member

    Jun 16, 2003
    England
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Especially since 3 out of the 5 were penalties. And two were really soft. I caught some of the game and was really disappointed with the first two pens. The first looked like a dive, and the second was clearly an accident. And the announcers on ESPN didn't have the guts or the sense to admit they were dodgy calls. You've already covered the red card, so I won't mention that...
     
  22. Alana1079

    Alana1079 New Member

    Jun 9, 2002
    Backwoods, Florida
    The second wasn't an accident. She played the ball with her hand to her advantage. She did this in the area. That's a PK.
     
  23. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    May 4, 2002
    The most glaring problem that the US has had, and continues to have, under April is concentration and focus, particularly in the defense. It is clear that that problem is still present.

    While with any half way decent finishing by, a list of names about as long as the roster less keepers, the score would have been much higher the fact is that against any half way decent team the US gives up 3 or so from stupidity in the back.

    Discipline in the defense should be first and foremost in any team hoping to advance in the WWC. Against Sweden, Norway, Brazil, China, on most of the rest of the WWC field glaring errors in the back, like happened today, will guarantee defeat.

    It almost seems like the "idea" of solid defense has not even been addressed.

    Chastain is NOT at the level of play that should get her a starting position on the team. Aside from the dumb plays she has slowed too much to be counted on for 90 minutes.

    The rest of the defense seems to be lost somehow. When they are close to goal they are fine as either keeper seems to take control just fine. Further up the field they seem leaderless and much of the play is without direction.

    Having said all that this team has too much talent to fail completely. They will get out of their group and, most probably, play at least as far as the semifinals. But they will NOT get further than that without a MUCH better performance out of the defense.

    Remember that Mexico is over rated at 31st in the world and virtually all the WWC teams are MUCH better.
     
  24. grendel

    grendel New Member

    Nov 15, 2002
  25. soccermonkey19

    soccermonkey19 New Member

    Nov 17, 2000
    Mississippi

    Parlow? A keeper?! I don't think CP moves fast enough to be a keeper...not to mention, she moves just plain weird. LOL

    I always figured that Mia was probably still the emergency keeper. After all, she did post a shutout in the last minutes of that match in WWC '95. :D
    That being said, she is rather small for a keeper.

    I wonder who the backup keep is...
     

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