Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire? By an intellectually dishonest nitpicker? I'll take that chance. Oh, please. Europeans envious of American beer. That's sig material. LOL. We have a trade deficit with Europe, for what it's worth. Most Europeans aren't watching the Superbowl, though our movies and television are popular. Surely, they're not jealous of our McDonald's (or Budweiser, giggle). Sure it does. We're denying 50+ millions access to health care, that's disgraceful. Yes, a much higher life expectancy. Two full years, which is a big deal. For example, in the USA a male has a 78% chance of reaching 65. In France, a 80% chance. In Canada, 84%. Our immoral policies are condemning millions to an early grave. If you don't care about 50 million + without access to health care, our ridiculously high poverty rates, and a whole host of other social ills, than ok.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire? How was what I said intellectually dishonest? Incidentally, I should point out that I'm not jealous of the Europeans. Except for soccer, history (which we certainly can't remedy with your amazing programs) and the ability to practice my foreign languages. So if they don't envy us, I sure as heck don't envy them. Don't blame me because the Irish drink more Bud than Guiness. Did I say jealous of it? I said that emulating us is a strange form of resistance to our evil ways. And actually, most of them are watching the Superbowl, since pretty much everyone on the freaking planet does. We're not denying them, first of all. Second of all, I agree, health care should be made more available. That hardly means we're morally reprehensible. Immoral? LOL. verybgdog? Is that you? A two full years - PROOF that our policies of killing more Americans are to blame. If Americans choose to eat more, who am I to blame them? You also failed to mention that the French smoke like chimneys, and have the highest rate or cirrhosis in Europe. So much for their amazing health care systems. Our poverty rates aren't ridiculously high, first of all. And my reaction to your incredibly overwraught description of our social ills hardly strikes me as the equivalence of hating poor people. If you feel Europe is "superior" to us, as I said - the visas and work permits ain't that hard to get.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire? You're not that simple surely. Not sure I've ever been to a club where they've been giving away free Guinness all night. It's different stuff and treated differently.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire? Two year differential is massive not because everyone in the USA dies 2 years earlier (which isn't great if you're nearing the end), but because it really means millions of people dying many years before their time. You may quibble over the cause of our high mortality rates (which include infants and children, making your lifestyle argument a lot weaker), but the fact remains that a huge % of Americans do not have access to health care. Our poverty rate is horrific, the worst of any high-income country. 1 in 5 children are in poverty. 15.8% of Americans are poor, as compared to 10.2% of French. That's a huge difference. http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2003/pdf/hdr03_HDI.pdf page. 12
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire? I'm sorry, I don't find these statistics to equal "morally inferior" to France. Had you simply said we have more social inequality, sure. And since I've gone on record as saying I don't mind higher taxes - that's fine too. But what this has to do with our moral weakness and undeserved status as a superpower, I have no idea.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire? nobody is asking you to, or saying you do, but while an unhealthy % of Americans persist in the belief that the whole world is clamouring to get into America you'll be laughed at. ha ha ha. you really believe that don't you? The superbowl is a flyspeck on the radar outside of the US. Do you want to know how they get that "1 billion people around the world watch the superbowl" figure? They work it out as the number of people who either watched it live or could have taped it and watched it later. Essentially, if you live in a house that receives a TV channel that is broadcasting the superbowl, they you are swept up as being someone who could have watched later on tape regardless of whether you did or not. Yet you won't stop to think how ridiculous it is to think that 1 in 6 of the world's population will watch a sport they have no interest in. Or perhaps you think that Superbowl viewing figures in England are really about on par with the FA Cup final. to be quite honest I don't think the USA is noticeably any more or less moral than any country in Europe, for example. The difference being that the actions of individual european countries upon other countries are not felt anywhere near as greatly, nor do we generally feel we have the right to militarily stomp on any country we feel like, just because we can.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire? "More social inequality" translates into tens of millions suffering horribly. If that's not immoral, the word has no meaning. What does this have to do with our status as a superpower? Nothing, if we want to go it alone. If we want others to follow our lead, they have every right to consider our values, which are sorely lacking.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire? As I never said that, I'm not sure what your point is. My point is that the US exports a ton of culture to Europe, and Europeans are quite happy to be consumers. It certainly goes both ways, but I don't get the sense that Ben apparently does, that the Europeans mock us for our evil government and terrible social ills, and would hate to emulate us in any way. Now, as to WHY you'd drink that piss known as Budweiser, I don't know. I just know that you do. In great quantities. Perhaps you can explain it. No, of course not. But the Super Bowl viewing numbers are so big because people watch it as more than a game - its a spectacle, of sorts. People in the US with no interest in the game (and believe me, there are PLENTY of them) still watch it. For the commercials, and as a cultural event. The last Super Bowl party I went to at someone's house (and these are typical) had as many women as men. Put it this way: you know what the Super Bowl is - 99% of Americans have never heard of the FA cup. My point is that far more people watch the Super Bowl in England than watch the FA Cup final in the US. Which is similar to my point, without the military stomping. To be fair, we also usually try to avoid militarily stomping on people. Usually. Bush is not exactly setting American hearts aflutter with his policies these days.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire? OK, I guess it has no meaning. Having an extra 5% more poor people does NOT make your country immoral. We're not asking Europe out on a date. We want them to join in a war. This has to do with our "values" about health care. When all is said and done, both Europe and the US respect each other because of our traditional adherence to classical liberalism. A tradition that has been alive longer and more consistently in the US, I might add.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire? 50% more poor people, actually. And we're not couting all the people who have no access to healthcare in the list of poor.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire? I find it a bit ironic that you sit here spouting the superiority of France over the United States and then provide a link that Ranks the U.S. as the 7th leading country in Human development and lists Fance as number 17. Do you believe the Japanese Health care is that much superior to France's that their life expectancy is 2 and a half years longer, or is it possible that their is more to life expectancy than the quality of your health care system. Did you ever think children in Poverty might not be so simple either. Is it possible that the high percentage of unwed mothers in this country could be contributing to the large percentage of children in poverty. In general the United States is more individualistic. That means people who succeed are more likely to succeed in a big way, and unfortunately people who make bad choices with their lives are more likely to feel negative impacts from those choices.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire? And yet France's unemployment rate is 9.7% while the US' is 5.6% (which although near full employment is still considered too high in this country). To me, that is immoral.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire? You say tomato, and I say tomato. The statistic is the same. 10%+5%=15% .1+.1(.5)=.15=15% Spare me the math lesson. As for your other comment, are you seriously suggesting that this number does NOT include people who don't have health care? Finally, not everyone who doesn't have health care is necessarily poor. And for the last time, it does NOT make us immoral. If Sweden has less poverty than France, does that make France immoral according to you?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire? So why doesn't any other nation have the balls to say "no, you aren't"
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire? Good question. Perhaps (and this is pure speculation): 1.) Nobody except us cares enough about the moniker to raise a fuss about it. 2.) They're afraid of us
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empi Many of the people who are not classified as poor are unable to afford the most basic needs, namely heathcare. I'd consider those persons poor as well, even if their incomes are above the poverty level. Just about everything is life is a matter of degree, but America goes beyond the pale. I happen to think Sweden is morally superior to France, but both have a strong safety net. America does not.
The United States is admired and reviled all over the world; emulated, yet pointed to as an example of what is wrong; the wealthiest country in the world yet possessing arguably the largest gap between the have's and have not's; countries all over the world resent our prosperity, yet emulate our style and culture. This is the definition of our empire, just like the Romans, who were admired for their civilization, yet resented for their power. Famous for the rights they gave to their citizens, yet heavy-handed and brutal with the nations that they conquered. To be an empire is to live a contradiction, possessing amazing strengths and crippling weaknesses. The defining time for the United States is just dawning, as we realize we are the only true superpower remaining, as we address (or fail to address) a world that needs our strength, yet resents it. We could improve life for many on this planet, or royally screw it all up but many of the decisions we are making now are defining what America's legacy to the world will be. No wonder the coming Presidential election seems so important.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or Good for you then. I'm sorry, but I don't consider random people poor just because I happen to like a certain criteria. It does not go beyond the pale. And if you can't understand the obvious reasons for the ability of the Swedes to have a better social welfare program than the French, you're beyond hope.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire? Or 3.) We aren't really as hated as we're crying about on this board. Look, three years ago this discussion would have looked a lot different, and Bill Clinton was just given a rousing reception by Germans 2 years ago. Bush alone does not take us from semi-cuddly free trade proponent to unearthly spawn of Darth Vader. This is as much a matter of perception as it is policy. Is Bush disliked and feared? Somewhat, yeah. Does that mean America as a whole is now seen as a "barbaric industrialized" country who everyone fears even while trying to send their kids to Harvard or Berkeley? Uh, no.
Now THAT is something I can agree with. Except to say that our gap between the haves and have nots is only big if compared to Western Europe and Japan.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon I don't consider killing millions of Americans every generation because they can't afford adequate heath care a trivial issue. A person who can't afford health care is poor. The USA is way beyond the pale. Frankly, we should be ashamed of ourselves. You're wrong if you think the differences between France and Sweden can be explained exclusively due to immigration issues.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA: hegemon or empire? no idea. I think it's the choice of the young, mainly because they are more susceptible to advertising and know no better. the problem here is you are extrapolating US viewing trends around the world, and they just don't apply. The half-time show may be huge over there, but outside of the US people don't generally even know there is a half-time show, let alone watch the game because of it. For over a third of the world's population the game takes place in the middle of the night, hardly making it and ideal family party event. As for watching the game for the commercials..err...do you really think if it's shown in England they'll show the American commercials too? far more? Viewing figures here are measured in the tens of thousands, if that. Comparison with US viewing figures for the cup final are irrelevant. People here know about the superbowl because of the numerous references to it in the American media. You'd have to ask a heck of a lot of people before you found one who could tell you who the current superbowl champions are. As I said, it's a fly-speck on the radar in sporting terms outside of the United States. Don't worry, we used to believe the FA Cup final was really popular worldwide too, when we used to hear that it was being shown in 157 countries etc.