USA goalkeeper discussion thread - Episode IV: A New Hope

And even before 40. Jeff Agoos was by far the best MLS ant the NT CB in 2001 (with injured Pope though), and then had untimely sharp decline in 2002 at 34.

 

Kind of hard to do that if Turner gets almost all the caps. It's partly circular logic - he's the guy cuz he's the guy.

I think he's individually the most likely legit #1 by 2026, but that doesn't mean we should be satisfied w/ him already in 2024, and we shouldn't foster competition, plus depth.

I'm going to lose it if he's made the GC starter again. At the very least, Freese or Turner deserves the shot Turner originally got, to unseat Steffen. Giving both the 1st 2 friendlies to Turner sucked enough.

 

Unfortunately this is pretty true. We (The USA) have had good to great goalkeepers for a very long time and now we have...... Turner.
He is very good at PKs but that is a tiny, almost minuscule, part of a goalkeeper's game. He has generally poor positioning and 95% of the time during play his first step is wrong. We badly need someone else and I do not really see anyone eligible for the USA that is playing better.
We used to be able to depend on the MLS to at least expose good 'keepers but, for some reason, MLS no longer is producing a number of really good 'keepers. But there are some that should be looked at closely once the important matches are finished. That is we need to test out more 'keepers in the friendlies that remain before we again start to play must win matches.

We used to have 'keepers that could actually win (or at least preserve ties in) matches for us but now we have 'keepers that we hope will not lose matches by making mistakes. Turner is one that always seems just one touch away from gifting a goal to the other team.

No goalkeeper is perfect (see Keller's bank shot off a Mexican forward for a goal) but we need one or two that do not make bad mistakes every game. (Yes turner made mistakes in the win against Jamaica) We never used to have 'keeper problems but that has changed in the last few years and now it is one of our weakest positions.

Watching some of the Uxx tournaments I see some hope there but they need refinement before they are really ready for full team duty for the USMNT.

What we do NOT need to see is Turner playing regularly in friendlies after Monday. In fact he should not even be called into camp for most friendlies as we need to find a good keeper. We now have a probably good coach and i am sure he will search for a good 'keeper as soon as this short spate of meaningful matches ends.

 

Young guys are a cycle away. The alternatives for 2026 are Schulte and Freese mostly.

 

Camp Alfajor. Though 3/4 of folks on BS won't say it right (see: Paredes, Kevin).

 

Turner is better than you indicate. He is a very good shot stopper. He is not good with his feet.

 

I also don't know if he's worse than our previous starters as none of them were very good with their feet it just wasn't a priority back then.

 

Nobody cared too much back then. I really cant tell you how Friedel and Keller were with their feet. Not very good I would assume. Howard might have been a bit better as feet were starting to be a thing for keepers.

 

For the record, I strongly disagree. Even though he was/is #2 at both Arsenal and CP, he would not hold those jobs unless he is pretty good at everything except feet. He makes mistakes but so does every single keeper in the world.

 

No, he really isn't a "very good" shot stopper. Last season in his first opportunity to play consistently at a high level he put up very poor stopping numbers (-.35 PSxG-GA/90, 23 of 25 in the PL with a qualifying number of starts). It wasn't just issues with his feet/poor decision making that led Forest to scour Europe for a replacement last January.

Now is Turner the best the USMNT has right now? Probably. But a "very good" shot stopper he is not.

 

Wasn't Keller the one who hit the Mexican forward in the chest while trying to clear the ball and he scored on us? I can only imaging elf Turner did that now.

 

Yes. A World Cup qualifier at the old stadium in Foxboro. Hit Carlos Hermosillo in the head. The game ended 2-2.

 

Yes. It was a perfect bank shot. It went directly from Keller's foot to the Mexican's head and then into goal some 25-30 yards behind the play. I think the ball may have bounce a few times but there was no chance for anyone to stop it as the bank shot was so perfect.

In the goalkeeper rotation at the time Friedel was considered very good with his feet but it was never really used as the standard pattern was that any pass back to the 'keeper was the blasted way upfield. There was virtually no "play out of the back" so we cannot say for sure just how good either main keeper was. At the time people praised Friedel's foot skills but I never saw any indication of real foot skills by either 'keeper as it simply was not used.
Of course the rules (laws) were very different back then and they favored getting the ball far away from goal very quickly.

FWIW: I do not really like the new rules on the goal kicks as it seems to me to over encourage a lot of touches close to goal and slow the match down a lot.
In fact the new rules have, I think, actually reduced the excitement of the overall match.

 

hit him in the 5-head

 

Freidel and Howard could both start an attack by throwing.In fact,IIRC,a Howard throw triggered the late Donovan goal against Algeria.

 

Ok, I'm game. Why?

See, I'll disagree.

Even in sh!tty lower division English soccer, and even in the Big Ten, and everywhere in the game, a GK will touch the ball with his/her feet more than with his/her hands. Because of this, it is now known that the GK must be able to handle the ball cleanly at their feet.

This evolution is merely those in the game recognizing this reality, and adjusting priorities. Just as bunting used to be a big part of baseball, but now, it is known that giving away outs is, like, fvkxing stoopid.

Just as every Marine is a rifleman, so too does every player in soccer need to be capable with the ball at their feet. This reality of the game ain't going backwards, unfortunately for Turner.

 

1. Keller. Remember that game US beats Brazil 1:0? Keller stopped everything in that game.
2. Howard: WC US vs. Belgium. Howard stopped most of the shots.
3. Freidel: his long arm forced forwards have to hit more toward the posts, and that ruined many of the shots.
4. Guzan: he just singlehanded eliminating Inter Miami and Messi.

We really had good goalkeepers before.

 

No memorable match for Hahnemann?

 

Turner is in that Hahnemann, Guzan range. Just my opinion. There's a reason he's been on Premier League rosters.

Worth noting that after that last win against Jamaica.........

.....................Matt Turner now has more wins in goal for the US than Brad Friedel.

By and large, Matt Turner has been good for the USMNT. Every USMNT keeper has hiccups.

Do people realize how ridiculous his GAA is?

Now there are a lot of factors in play for GAA. The nature of the opponents, the nature of the defense in front of them, etc. Turner also hasn't hit his phase of decline. I'm sure Howard's GAA was better before his decline.

Matt Turner has started 48 USMNT games and conceded only 34 goals. That's a GAA of 0.73.

That's #1 amongst our top 7 keepers

Howard 1.05
Keller 0.82
Meola 1.11
Guzan 1.14
Turner 0.73
Friedel 1.08
Steffen 1.08

If Turner stays as our #1 even for the next year and a half, he'll easily end up 3rd all time in USMNT wins. Easily.

Turner has more shutouts than somebody like Brad Friedel in many, many, many fewer caps. Turner has only been playing for the US since 2021.

People talk about the WC performances of Howard and Friedel. But ya know what? Turner was very good in 2022. Not talked about enough. He didn't bail us out in quite as dramatic of a fashion as Howard in 2014 and Friedel in 2002. But he was very good.

 

He's the only US keeper to have two cleansheets in a World Cup.

 

Yawn, by playing a majority of his caps, safely and comfortably at home. This is an artificial counting stat that does nothing to compare eras or to compare players.

Again, since he's playing a metric fvkcton of matches comfortably at home, who gives a sh!t?

Playing at home nonstop lowers the degree of difficulty so much that it makes the man's job idiotically simple.

But above all else, "GK wins" in soccer are as useless of a stat as "pitcher wins" in baseball.

I can agree that Turner was very good in 2022.

But when you're playing for a program like the USMNT, the performances of Howard and Friedel BECOME THE STANDARD at the position. (Which to be fair, Turner hasn't reached that standard yet.)

And when you're playing at home all the time, he SHOULD have better stats than the guys who had bags of urine and batteries thrown at them, while playing on the road more.