USA goalkeeper discussion thread - Episode IV: A New Hope

GK is now like we have traditionally been at forward; can’t count anyone out.

 

This window can we go with Turner, Schulte…and whichever of Freese or Celentano is eliminated next Saturday.

 

There are at least 10 MLS keepers that are ahead of Slonina, Horvath and Steffen, and 5 more ahead of Klinsmann. Yes, we are in position a discount them all.

 

You can also just call up both and release whoever’s team is still in it earlier as MLS is stopping for this window so no games will be missed.

 

I don’t know about 10 ahead of those three but none deserve a call up right now.

 

Just for fun in no particular order:
Frei, Schulte, Willis, McCarthy, Stuver, Callender, Freeze, Celentano, Guzan, Clark, McMath, Cohen, Melia
Some are obviously better, the rest are arguably better. And all are better than Steffen and Klinsmann.

 

Yeah lots of these guys I wouldn’t call before those three. McMath for one has been barely holding onto the starting job and will lose it to Beavers probably next season.

 

I don't think a single person implied we should call Klinsmann up to the National Team.
We were simply pointing out that he just started for one of the better teams in Serie B.

 

If Jonathan keeps the starting spot, plays well and Cesena continues to fight for promotion I can see an argument to give him a look. Right now to me, not including Turner and Schulte (who IMO are the top 2 keepers in the pool) I think it goes...

1.Matt Freese
2.Roman Celantano
3.Brad Stuver
4.Drake Callendar
5.Chris Brady
6.Diego Kochen (though you can move him up just for potential/dual nat recruiting)

Will be curious to see if Gavin Beavers becomes starter next year. Also, while I expect Steffen to remain the starter, his struggles and injury history make me wonder if Adam Beudry will take a step up next year

 

Does he have a starting spot? He has one league start and one Coppa start and another keeper has started 10 matches. Pisseri -- the starter -- hasn't been great, but per advanced metrics, he's still been better than Klinsmann per 90 (not that the sample is anything to speak of for JK; it's just he's given up 1 goal in 180 minutes when the xGOT he's faced is .2).

Klinsmann was one of the worst MLS goalkeepers I've ever seen, and horribly erratic. It's possible he got better, but it would take quite a change.

But why are people acting like he's played more than 2 matches?

Remember when people were calling for Champions League keeper Josh Cohen -- who actually was a consistent starter for years for Maccabi? And now Josh Cohen can't beat out Grandpa Guzan in Atlanta?

Serie B is not great. I'm over-relying on the Opta rankings here, but of the Top 20 MLS and Serie B teams, they put just 3 Serie B teams in the Top 20. Eleven of the bottom 15 between the two leagues are Serie B.

 

Serie B is moderately worse than MLS. Why wouldn't we just play a couple of the 15 guys who start in MLS in a typical yr, even the 30-somethings. It's such a fetishization of anything Europe.

Josh Cohen returned stateside from Haifa to be a backup to a 40 yr old.

 

I don't know if he has or not, thus I said if all that happens. Don't think he's anywhere near the USMNT though

 

Technically it's 3 matches now (the last two league matches and a cup tie). The comments from the manager indicate that Klinsmann right now is being preferred to Pisseri on form, but he probably hasn't outright won the spot long term and may end up back on the bench before long. (I posted the manager's quotes in his YA thread here.)

 

Nobody is saying we should call Jonathan Klinsmann up to the national team. Just one to keep an eye on.

We do, by the way, call players up from Serie B. Habitually.
There was a player from Serie B at the last camp. From a team lower in the table than Klinsmann's (as of today anyway).

 

Two wrongs don't make a right. The player from Serie B was grandfathered in from being compelled to file a 1-time switch. And now he's been benched. Was always silly he was coming over John Tolkin, DeJuan Jones, Caleb Wiley, etc.

If Lund is at next camp in spite of this it's extra foolish.

 

Personally.............................I think Tolkin and Wiley made it clear in interviews that they wanted to be part of the Olympic team last summer. So Berhalter sent them to those camps and kept Lund as the backup with the USMNT thru those windows.

I mean, Antonee has started virtually every game that's mattered since the start of WC22. And even goes 90 minutes in most of those games. So yes, Caley Wiley or John Tolkin could have sat on the bench behind Robinson just as well as Lund.

But anyway, the while discussion is a little silly. All we were doing was to say that Klinsmann has started some games in Serie B. Which many posters might not have been aware of. It wasn't meant as a "CAP HIM NOW" kind of post.

 

Lund was the preferred #2 option before & after the Olympics, so that's not an excuse. In fact, the Olympics should have been used to bridge the gap to the seniors, for Tolkin and a few others, but it wasn't. For yrs now we've been failure in integration from secondary tourneys like the Olympics & the GC, that's contributed to the drain of reliable int'l players. That, just fetishizing anything Europe, & over-doing it on dual-national recruitment chasing, ala Jonathan's father.

And nobody ever accused anyone of suggesting he should be capped now. But why should he ever be capped playing out of Serie B, like you and others are suggesting? He played in our domestic league across a few yrs and struggled. That's who he is, until he plays for an equal or better league, like Serie A, C'Ship, Belgium, etc. Same as Cohen, Wingo, Gall, etc. They weren't even on a consistent climb, like Lund was, until recently. So he'd be a worse Serie B gem mine.

 

Why? Like we don't know what he is? He is a back up in a sub MLS league, when in MLS he was the worst keeper by far. Should we keep an eye on every single USL keeper?

 

And Jonathan was worse than all of them when he played here, so that's just where we're at right now. You're over-estimating how bad it is, to the pt you're compelled to mine some fool's gold. There is no gold. Wear the silver that is Turner, Freese, Schulte, Callender, Celentano..hell even Stuver. Domestically good shot-stopper & distribution. Maybe he'll age well enough. Still would be better than Klinsmann. A long way until we get into those depths.

 

I am new (or very late) to this thread folks …

question - re: https://medium.com/@liamhanley/epl-goalkeeper-rankings-2023-41eec61e1c42

do we have the same sort of quantitative rankings/eval of 25 (or pick your number) of our best or most promising keepers?

I am curious as to whether Poch and company are statistically analyzing our current situation. -

disclaimer - or maybe I need to go back to page 20 or 50 to find it here?

 

I don't think keeper stats are advanced enough yet.

 

No one is saying to actually watch Serie B games, just set up your phone notifications

 

A-Team Starter
1. Turner (by default)

After that it's wide open

Under-23s
2. Schulte
3. Brady
4. Slonina
5. Beavers

Over-23s
2. Freese
3. Celentano
4. Callender
5. Stuver

Other YNTers:
2. Kochen
3. Eyestone
4. Beaudry
5. Rick

Dual nats
2. Taishi Brandon Nozawa

Dropped?
2. Horvath (hopefully)
3. S Johnson (yes thank god)

Shouldn't be under consideration but people are talking about them for some reason
2. Steffen
3. Guzan
4. Jonathan Klinsmann

Fbref:
https://fbref.com/en/comps/22/keepersadv/Major-League-Soccer-Stats