USA goalkeeper discussion thread - Episode IV: A New Hope

Not that I'm wishing for one but just imagine if there was an injury lol

🇺🇸 Diego Kochen is on the bench for Barcelona for El Clásico today against Real Madrid 🇺🇸 https://t.co/s3gLc0dtRC

— American Ultras Talk (@ameriultrastalk) October 26, 2024

USMNT 🇺🇸 gk situation abroad

Matt Turner is a backup at Crystal Palace

Ethan Horvath is a backup at Cardiff City, a 2nd division team

Gaga Slonina just got benched at Barnsley, a 3rd division team.

We used to have proper goalkeepers, what happened?

— Tactical Manager (@ManagerTactical) October 26, 2024

 

Roman Celentano deserves a call up. He’s young. He’s got a lot of games in MLS under his belt now. He’s not going to set the world on fire, but he doesn’t seem to make the sort of mental errors that so many of our keepers make. While he might strike you as “plain”. I’ll take plain right now.

 

My current top 10 goalkeepers…

#1 Patrick Schulte - Arguably the best American keeper in MLS. Mostly solid all around. Young. Plays. Poch should have given him his shot.

#2 Roman Celentano - Underrated. I consider him neck and neck with Schulte as far as talent.

#3 Matt Turner - dropping fast. But he had a good enough window with Poch. And if he can move sooner than later, he might find himself back at #1. That said, if he stays a bench warmer. He will fall off this list. I promise that I’m not afraid to drop him further.

#4 Diego Kochen - Potential alone. The fact no one else is worth a damn elevates him.

#5 Matt Freese - Had a really good year. Probably too soon for me to anoint him ahead of Turner. But we’ll see.

#6 Brad Guzan - Maybe, we need to resurrect Guzan. He’s a leader. He’s got tons of experience. He’s apparently still capable of standing on his head if we need him. And he plays. It might not be long before Guzan surpasses Turner, if Turner continues to not play.

#7 Gabriel Slonina - Just got benched at Barnsley, which could knock him off this list sooner than later. But I’m still a believer.

#8 Chris Brady - Maybe, Brady is better than Slonina. It’s hard to say when the Chicago Fire are so terrible.

#9 Zack Steffen - Tons of experience. Tons of actual talent. But between the ears? I don’t know. I could see Steffen rebound and emerge as one of our top keepers. I could also see him fall off the face of the earth too.

#10 Brad Stuver - Maybe, it’s time to admit that Horvath is never going to be a reliable option. Maybe, it’s time to admit that Drake Callender is way too error prone to deserve a call up again. I don’t know. But as it stands now, Stuver is better than Horvath and Callender. Besides, I might honestly prefer either of Beaudry, Eyestone, Beavers, or Rick over Horvath right now. That’s how little I think of Horvath.

 

i suspect that this window will be the status quo, just because its who the staff has worked with prior to these games that matter. I expect Turner to start. And Turner, by the way, did fine in his outing against Panama without being "match fit." More than fine. He saved serious blushes. On the CONCACAF level, he'll be fine 95% of the time. [Kind of obvious seeing as he's won the "Golden Glove" in two Nations Leagues and a Gold Cup as the best keeper in the competition. One in each of the last three years. There is kinda a dearth of elite keepers in the whole region at the moment; not just the USMNT.


But after that? Competition is wide open.

Slonina is a weird one that's hard to figure out. Hopefully just a dip in form. The manager is saying the right things. The player is apparently doing the right things. Slonina was REALLY good for Barnsley earlier in the season. I'm not all that concerned honestly.............................

Its the kind of accountability that young players need. Gotta perform or they'll give a chance to somebody else.

When you read the manager's comments, it's clear that he still rates him.

USMNT goalkeeper Slonina benched at Barnsley

“Gabs is disappointed in the second goal the other day and he’s had one or two moments this season when he perhaps could have done a bit better," Clarke said, per the Barnsley Chronicle.

"But I have massive faith in him. He is young and he’ll learn from this. He will be working hard as he has been in training to try to get the spot back. His reaction was outstanding. He’s honest and understands the decision. He’ll come again because he’s a top ‘keeper.”

 

What about Callendar? He's climbed ahead of Celentano in the PSxG related stats. Maybe both of them. Callendar's 8th while Celentano's 20th in PSxG+-, switch to per 90 and its 11th vs 15, still with Callendar out ahead. Is Celentano better w/his feet? Not paying attention in terms of viewing video on my end, just looking at the #'s.

 

In terms of my viewing, for whatever that’s worth, Callender can make more highlight reel saves but he is so much more error prone. Celentano is the sort of keeper that you can almost forget about in goal, for better or worse, in that I would just describe him as “reliable” rather than “special.”

 

No, he really wasn't. He had a couple of good performances in the Cup early in the season that got some attention here at BS, but during that exact same time he had some very shaky performances in the league (that did not get discussed here). Hell, he had two errors leading to goals in his first four league matches! He wouldn't have been benched if the only strike against him was the error against Charlton last week (or even the soft goal he allowed against Huddersfield). He was benched because he's been making too many errors like that since the start of the season.

 

I think Turner will definitely get called up and will likely start. I think we’ll see Schulte as well also. Less sure on Horvath or Steffen.

 

This comment could be about Slonina OR Steffen lol

 

I remember saying back around 2020/21 time frame that I thought Guzan had a really good shot to make the 2022 WC team as GK3 given the inexperience of the rest of our GK room, and not getting a positive reception. His injury in April 2022 made that impossible but if he's able to work his way back into the international picture (even if only as depth) at age 40 after being dropped by the NT entirely even before suffering an Achilles rupture at age 37 and an MCL tear at 38 that would be one of the most impressive comebacks I've ever heard of.

 

I think Slonina still has tremendous upside, it's just that every passing week seems to make it less likely he'll be ready to be the guy 18 months from now.

Which isn't even an indictment on him....he's still very young for a GK. We just had desperate hopes given the state of the GK pool otherwise that he'd be ready to start in a World Cup by age 22--by comparison, Tim Howard was 23 in 2022 and didn't make the World Cup team.

 

Indeed were there any starting goalies at the last World Cup who were 22? It’d incredibly rare for a goalie that young to start at a World Cup.

 

I don't think so. According to Transfermarkt, the youngest starting keeper in the last World Cup was Diogo Costa (Portugal) at 23, followed by Meshaal Barsham (Qatar) at 24.

In the 4 tournaments prior to that, there were 4 starting goalkeepers in total who were 22 or younger: Itumeleng Khune (South Africa in '10), Thibaut Courtois (Belgium in '14), Matthew Ryan (Australia in '14), and Frances Uzoho (Nigeria in '18).

 

Poch and his new goalkeeping coach took a look at the candidates in the last camp and picked Turner for both matches.

Turner starts as the #1.
I fully expect him to play both matches against Jamaica.

That doesn't mean there won't be a competition, and others won't rise up.
It's clear Turner is #1 and it's his spot to lose, though. If he performs well in this window, then he'll likely continue as #1.

[Switching from Berhalter to Pochettino likely helped Turner in this competition at the outset. Pochettino and his staff knew Turner from the Premier League, and didn't know Patrick Schulte and the others from Adam. He knew Slonina from Chelsea.]

Slonina rapidly rising to #1 was always a bit of a dream. The dream that we had some Thibaut Courtois-like prodigy. It's like asking whether Cavan Sullivan can be our Yamine Lamal. A dream. We're fans. We're allowed to dream. He's not Courtois. That's doesn't mean Slonina won't steadily rise up the ranks and eventually be #1 years from now. He's just not there yet.

 

Been saying this for awhile now and its getting worse. The WC is not some thing way out in the future. We are flat running out of windows to try some other keepers. If Poch thinks Turner is the guy for 2026 so be it. But if he doesn't then dammit its past time to give Schulte or whomever some game time. We don't have that many national team windows left.

 

Pretty much, he was really good vs Leeds I think (don't remember who but was a cup game) and I think in 1 or 2 of his first starts in League One, but he's very much struggling with controlling the box and coming off his line from what I've seen... as in when he comes out or when he stays are both at weird times and it has led to some very bad goals... and with a team like Barnsley who not only have promotion aspirations but also play very direct soccer? Those are magnified.

Gaga is still insanely young especially for a keeper but I always have been of the opinion that people don't realize the issues in Gaga's game... and they were there in Chicago too (and it's been said many times that many in Chicago thought Chris Brady was the better player long term).

Of course I maintain the opinion that Eupen was so bad last year it was basically a lost year of development for Gaga

 

The high likelihood is the World Cup starter will be Turner and at this point Schulte has the best chance of unseating him with an outside chance for someone like Freese.

Players like Slonina, Brady, Beavers, etc seem like a cycle away. Kochen too but what he has on his side is given his club if he does establish himself as the starter at any point he’s an automatic starter for the US.

 

I think Kochen, and Schulte are really the only guys that could jump Turner at this point. I could change my mind about Freese, Celentano, Callendar etc if they get some January run, maybe a Nov call up before it, but I think Schulte because he's on the cusp of locking the #2 role, and Kochen because nobody is left who could really make a HUGE jump in the next year. Kochen's made the bench for Barcelona multiple times the past year, it might not be meaningful, but certainly the scuttlebutt out there is that he's a monster stud GK prospect, if he makes the senior team in '25, and/or gets a loan and shows out, he could jump a lot in the next 13 months.

 

Schulte and Turner are in a very similar situation at the moment to Turner and Steffen 4 years ago.

 

Yep--also Donnarumma was 23 and would've been Italy's starter in 2022 as well as their #2 in 2018 at age 19, but they didn't qualify either time of course.

 

Stylistically & situationally, the best analog to Turner is Freese. Turner didn't have his 1st cap until the January camp before last. So for Freese, that would be the one upcoming.

Then Turner got fully integrated by getting the subsequent GC. If that's given to Turner this time, Poch will have been an epic failure in this department. It's a huge opportunity for someone to challenge him, or at worst provide another option cuz we can't be satisfied w/ 1.

Choosing this Turner challenger correctly, or abandoning quickly, in case it's not working out, is going to be vital. Schulte's more the Steffen option, outside of being the incumbent, & already being in a big club loan army abroad. But that doesn't mean Schulte will fail, cuz Patty could be the all-arounder who doesn't mentally implode.

BTW, we're off to a horrible start to exercise this strategy. Turner gets both starts in Poch's first friendlies. Now you're seeing the usual suspects come out and defend him in advance for projecting to start Turner in the upcoming competitive fixtures. When Poch could have used the friendlies for trials, and anyway, Turner only had 1 cap before he was between the sticks in official comp. Schulte has 2, which have went well. And he has the club form argument. Watch these same jokers will defend Poch if he gives Turner the GC too. This has been a collective coaching failure to spam starts for Turner, from the '23 GC, until now.

 

And he debuted as the starter at Milan at 16 and was basically the established first choice starter after a few months. It’s the rare case of someone so young breaking through at a big club (Casillas is the only other example I can think of at the top of my head).

Donnarumma also became the starting goalkeeper for Italy when he was 19 (though Italy missed the World Cup that year and Buffon probably doesn’t retire internationally till after if they make it). But he was also the starting goalie for Italy in the Euros in 2021 when he was 22 (which they won).

If you look at all the bigger clubs I think they basically all have first choice goalies purchased elsewhere.

 

No. Turner was much better than any competitor including Steffen. Schulte is marginally better than MLS keepers (if that) and not better than Turner.

 

Right, he took over as Italy's #1 after Buffon retired which presumably wouldn't have been until after the WC had they qualified.

 

Is Gaga Slonina even the best US-eligible 20 year old goalkeeper in the English third division, or could that be Vicente Reyes?

Vicente Reyes 🇨🇱🇺🇸🇪🇸 ('03) is the other American in the EFL League One 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿. He appeared in his 10th match for Cambridge United back on Oct 19. Here are his stats from those matches

Matches: 10
Starts: 10
Minutes: 900
Saves: 26
Clean sheets: 0
Goals conceded: 16
Run outs: 1/1
High… pic.twitter.com/9Zihg5R0Hb

— Zach McCabe (@zjmccabe) October 29, 2024

Because he seems like a Chile lock, or at least pretty close to that. There’s also the fact that his form this season is very comparable to Slonina’s, although in the 3 games since getting his first Chile senior call up he’s been excellent. I don’t think he’s good enough for a…

— American Ultras Talk (@ameriultrastalk) October 30, 2024