USA goalkeeper discussion thread - Episode IV: A New Hope

It's Schulte for now. Kochen is the top prospect. Everyone else is in free fall.

 

For 2030.

 

I wonder how many 90-minute games of Kochen against adult pros y'all have actually watched?

His "top prospect" status seems to be based almost entirely on hearsay for the moment.

That's not to say he doesn't have that potential. i don't know.
But this seems like a case of "young player that we've rarely actually seen on the reserve team of a big club must be better than the guys we see every week"...............kind of situation.

 

His prospect status is completely based on how Barcelona are treating him for me. I've never seen him play and figured he was going to be passed around lower divisions while the Barca name teased us but when he's that young and their backup in real games that gets my attention. Can't say he deserves anything yet but that's a lot of faith by them unless they have a lot of injuries I'm unaware of.

 

That's what hearsay is.

You've never seen him play, but he must be better than Gavin Beavers.
Why? Because he's at Barcelona. I can run down all the other youth and academy players we've had at Barca and similar clubs that didn't become USMNT regulars. Konrad de La Fuente? He actually got into first team games in the Champions League for Barca. What did that mean??? Nothing.

What do we expect Barcelona to say in the press about Kochen? "Well, we're broke. We decided not to spend any money on backup goalkeepers, so we've got young question marks from La Masia on the bench. Not ideal, but that's the way it is right now." Of course not. They're going to say positive things.

[As others have pointed out, our success rate with goalkeepers at big European clubs over the past 25 years is exactly 0%. Who was the best? Quintin Westberg? Spent time at PSG and Clairefontaine. Broke thru at Troyes, but has mostly been a career backup. Zero USMNT caps. If people want to say Ethan Horvath, that's fine. I don't count him. He was developed in the states by Real Colorado, moved to Norway, and went right into matchday squads with the first team.]

I'm not trying to be an A-hole here. Kochen could end up being great.
I just think we have to ease up on the glorification of a player we've barely seen.

 

We’ll see. I’m rooting for him.

 

Chris Brady not making the Olympic team tells us where the last regime had him even in the U23 depth chart.

Doesn't mean the next regime will think the same thing.

 

A. GK prospects =/= outfield player prospects.
B. Kochen's reputation as a prospect > that of De La Fuente.

And yet, they've unveiled prospect after prospect in recent years, from Yamal, to Gavi, to Balde, Cubarsi, Casado, and many others. Seriously, between their La Masia products on their 1st XI, and their remaining prospects in La Masia, they could easily make a team that would curbstomp the USMNT. (And this is not including other players, like Xavi Simmons who were made in La Masia, but left.)

Barça are like, REALLY REALLY GOOD at finding and developing prospects.

And AFAIK, Kochen STARTED his career abroad. He may be great, or he may become Matt Turner.

GK prospects are a different animal, because the position is different than outfield positions, and only one can play at a time.

And yet, posters glorify other players we rarely see with their clubs. People fall all over themselves to glorify MLS Matt Turner, and Gio Reyna.

Why not Kochen also?

 

He’s also just 20 years old at a position that tends to develop later. Schulte is three years older than him. Where will Brady be in three years? Not surprising he would be ahead of him now but I don’t think that’s particularly relevant in terms of his long term future.

 

Kochen is a great prospect. He has yet to however play regular first team soccer, and he’s just started establishing himself as the starter for Barca B (in the Spanish third division). There’s still a long way to go for him, which is fine since he’s 18 at a position that develops later.

Things I’d like to see for him in the short term to medium term is 1) Barca B getting promoted and him getting regular playing time in the Spanish second division, 2) moving to be the backup at Barcelona and getting some opportunities in Cup games, and 3) potentially a loan somewhere that he can get good experience.

Ter Stegen is 32 so we’ll see how much time he has left as starter. Goalies can play for a long time so it could be a couple seasons more or it could be till he’s in his late 30s like Neuer.

 

#RegimeChange!

 

Didn't come up through a European academy obviously but Tim Howard jumping directly from MLS 1.0 to Manchester United (at the time the biggest club in the world) at age 24 and immediately beating out France's #1 for the starting job is something.

 

Howard didn't come up thru a European academy. By definition.

We have a 0% success rate with regards to goalkeepers advancing thru youth programs at European clubs........................ending up with USMNT caps. 0%.

I encourage everyone to look at the resumes of every keeper to ever get capped by the USMNT.

The closest we come recently is William Yarbrough, only because he wasn't developed in the states. He was developed at Pachuca's academy. Mexico.....................not being a part of Europe.

Of our top 10 goalkeepers in terms of wins, 8 went to the NCAAs. Schulte is now on that path.

Kochen would be a first essentially. That's not to say it won't happen. I just think we've gone a tad bit overboard on predicting greatness that few of us have ever seen play against adults.

 

I will quibble with this only because you asked for it, but I just looked it up and I found an exception: David Yelldell who managed one cap (a second half substitute appearance) in 2011. Born and raised in Germany and came up through their youth system.

Edit: though it doesn't look like he came up through the academy of any noteworthy team, so if that's what you're looking for, then the answer probably does remain 0%.

 

Barça Atletic getting promoted means less for GK than for other positions. In that league, reserve teams' prospects play with and against grown men.

But Kochen getting minutes anywhere is meaningful for his career.

IMO, this is less important for him.

Barça have other GK who are older, and perhaps further along in their development, and whom have had minutes with their 1st team already. Barça would likely want to give Iñaki Pena and Astralaga minutes, in order to put those guys into the shop window for sale.

I think this depends on what Barça do with the GK that are ahead of him, and health.

This is part of it, as well as Ter Stegen's health, and his contract, which ends in 2028. There's also the aspect of their finances, which could hasten Ter Stegen's departure, although his wages aren't obese.

Happily, though, Barça do believe if a prospect is good enough, he's old enough. They don't give a shyte about throwing a 15, 16, or 17 year old into their 1st XI. So, things could move faster for him. It would be better for the USMNT if it did, IMO.

 

Now, David Yelldell is a name from the past.

He does show how difficult it is in Europe. 5 years in the Bundesliga during his prime with Leverkusen, 2 appearances across all competitions.

 

We have. But the counterpoint is that this isn't "just because he's at Barca" but because he's starting for Barca B at Barca and has first team rostering at times.

That doesn't guarantee he's going to be great for a variety of reasons, and I tend to ignore the quotes and rumors as well. But it is something substantially more than simply being in the academy.

 

I'm not sure what to think of Celentano. His #'s in '22 were yuck (people were critiquing Gaga in '22, and Celentano was worse), his #'s in '23 looked middle of the pack, if improved, this looks like his first top 10 year. So not sure what to think of Celentano. I guess maybe he's just growing into the job?

Didn't realize Freese was hurt, that's a bummer, so for me, it's Schulte, Turner (because, honestly, its going to take some really stupid decisions for him to fail to make the big 3 in '26, although he's halfway there), and one of the other guys, the best candidates for me are Celentano, Kochen, Frese, and Gaga.

I'm more hopeful than Brady than you, in '23 as the go to starter, he was a top 12-13 keeper in the advanced metrics despite playing for a dumpster fire horse ---- team like his compatriot Gaga at Eupen. So for me, if he was 12th/13th as an 18 year old? And he's still player for a disaster site? I'm open to there being plenty of hope there, certainly more than for Steffen, and Callendar considering age and performance. We'll see though.

I'm hoping its Schulte, Kochen and Gaga, I'm suspecting its Schulte, Turner and either Kochen or one of the MLS vets (unless Gaga turns his ship around ('22 to the present has been middling to disappointing to worse, this season in particular has been a crazy ride over just one month).

 

I will say this about Gaga, this year there has been no middle ground for him, he's either best player on the field for Barnsley rescuing them points or he's a liability costing him goals. Still insanely early in the season, but would like to see more consistency from him.

 

He's also been recognized on some "best players" lists, like the Guardians 60 list from '23, please tastefully ignore how Cruz Medina, inexplicably made that list (I like Medina well enough as a prospect, but as a top 60 young talent in the world? I see zero chance of that, or, maybe .001% chance of that).

 

I don't know, dude was 19 when they were playing their last tune ups, and was in the midst of his worst ever season (he was a top 10-15 keeper last year, this year, not so much). There was never any chance he was gonna make the olympic team especially with Kochen, Gaga, Schulte and crappy vets as options. He's playing his age 19/20 season, hopefully he bounces back next year. I will say I'm quite frustrated that Brady and Gaga have spent their entire careers with complete ----, hot garbage sides (only now, his fourth or fifth year as a pro, is Gaga playing for the first time for a team that isn't total ---. Again, please note, nearly all the keepers people in here like, are playing for teams at the top of the table, Im sure they're keeping is a part of that story, I'm also sure that playing for good and great teams helps their keeping).

 

I think it’s absolutely relevant if he can get minutes and look good in the Spanish second division versus the third division. It’s a much higher level and not far off leagues like MLS or the Championship. Whereas that’s not true of the Spanish third division.

If they truly see him as the goalkeeper of the future to succeed Ter Stegen they are going to want to get him some reps at a level above Barca B. Whether that’s in cup games or on loan.

 

Kochen and Medina both appear to have been the sole contributions to that list from the Guardian's US Sports Editor Tom Lutz (i.e., the person overseeing the US Sports page on their website).

 

It’s ok I’ve heard Chicago’s new coach likes to play out of the back so Brady can work on that part of his game.

 

Freese had a minor injury but he’s already back and didn’t miss any game time other than the one he had to leave early because of injury.