Post-match: USA 1 - 2 Serbia

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by gogorath, Jan 26, 2023.

  1. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Great to have new posters. Welcome.
     
  2. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    “The guy came off like Yoko Ono…”

    First off, that’s friggin hilarious. Secondly, I suspect we must be nearly the same age to grasp the profundity of that burn.
     
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  3. LuckofLichaj2

    LuckofLichaj2 Member

    Oct 14, 2021
    Always has. But he just hasn’t been very good for years.
     
  4. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The one thing that I think somewhat excuses it is the short camp and inexperience of the players. Zimmerman has been a USMNT regular, but the other ten starters went into the game with three caps between them. For the most part, they had not previously played in the system or with each other, and a 1-week camp isn't really enough to get familiar with each other. Some players might take risks anyway, but others might be more cautious in possession with unfamiliar teammates than they normally would be.
     
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  5. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Have the expectations ever been that high? It's been a long time since we've gotten more than one or two first-team contributors out of a January camp, and the few players who eventually get to the first team tend to only get there two or three years later.

    And this was an even younger and less experienced January camp roster than we usually have. I'd say Slonina probably makes the 2026 squad based on current trajectory, and Vazquez is likely to get looks with the first team sooner rather than later because he plays a problem position for us. But other than them we're mostly looking at guys who might possibly be ready to start contributing in two or three years' time if their development continues on a good path.
     
  6. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #56 xbhaskarx, Jan 26, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2023
    I was at the game and had the perfect angle from behind watching the free kick going in as if the ball never moved, but that's the problem with not watching on TV, I was so focused on the ball that I didn't even realize that it went through the wall and not around... what the heck.



    Gomez and Neal were decent for the most part, but in a few moments they certainly looked like two defenders who... um have pretty much never played first team first division professional soccer against grown ass men before? Imagine that.

    My overall feeling is positive, the results don't matter, we're just looking to find a few more guys for the pool, either now (Vazquez, Zendejas, Cowell, Jones) or in the future (Slonina, Gomez, Neal, Morris)...

    Having hyped Vazquez for almost a full year, it was cool to see his first USMNT goal in person, although I would have preferred it came earlier and I had not done so (thanks Gregg!)...

    Zendejas looked exciting at times.

    As a Quakes season ticket holder, I'm feeling more optimistic about 2023 after watching Cade Cowell.

    Other guys didn't do much for me, like Gressel and Pomykal... Hoppe was a non-entity, are the Hoppe Hypers ready to move on or do they still believe based on two good weeks at Schalke?
     
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  7. Arkose

    Arkose Member

    Mar 29, 2008
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We should all just recognize at this point that the US system/style of play in the 433 does not provide service to the striker position. At best the US striker position is an outlet to get the ball wide and presses the defense. The early cross would not be acceptable and Dest/Robinson really can’t do it accurately, anyways. Looking forward to having two forwards or at least a AM that can provide service to the line striker with a new manager.
     
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  8. Shawn Pug

    Shawn Pug Member

    Mar 18, 2022
    This post remind me, why is US Soccer sticking on a single format 433? Nearly on every age group every game recent years.
     
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  9. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    They did what a lot of national teams do in terms of "vertical integration." [Uruguay is great at this in particular.] The USMNT coach sets the primary formation, and the rest of the programs down the youth ranks do the same thing. So when a player is called up from the U20s or U23s or wherever, they can slot right in. I remember when the USSF development academy evaluators [in the Klinsmann era] used to grade youth teams on their adherence to certain aspects of tactical requirements. They all, for instance, were playing 4 in the back. I thought that was quite over the top.
     
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  10. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Are there any Hoppe Hypers left? I don't really see them.

    I'll throw out this hope for Hoppe. Let's not forget that Vazquez is ~2.5 years older than Hoppe. Brandon was in the wilderness a little bit until he found the right club that would give him the right chance.

    That's what Hoppe needs. Maybe its going to mean returning to MLS in order to regain some momentum. Matthew is still pretty young. He's stiil technically a USYNTer as he's eligible for the Olympics. And after Ricardo Pepi, our #9 options in the USYNT ranks are fairly thin at the moment.
     
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  11. neems

    neems Member+

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Apr 14, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it’s tough because he’s club career really has not been going well. Multiple teams now went cold on him, so he’s at really about finding his level and getting PT. But he’s definitely young enough to turn things around career wise just unsure about Nat involvement.
     
  12. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd say that the U20's used it and looked great. Maybe they were just more skilled than their competition at that age or maybe Varas has a quirk in the system he used but they looked like peak Dortmund from when Klopp was the coach just running rampant through everyone. I'm very interested to see how the U20's in the WC and if they can still look that dominating. At that point if they do I'm hoping Varas gets the Olympic gig because there will be a lot of the same players in it.
     
  13. tefftlon

    tefftlon Member

    Real Madrid
    United States
    Jan 11, 2023
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As an FC Cincinnati fan, understand my bias. Vazquez played a bit like he usually does. I really think he can be useful for us but he does have some steep competition. Outside of moving to a Belgium/Holland level league after we lift MLS Cup this fall, he needs to clean up his touch. One moment he'll perfectly bring down a long ball and then the next mistouch to lose it. For now, the less he touches the ball outside the box, the better. And I think that goes for the majority of our striker pool. Hopefully the next coach sees this and makes a tactical change...

    Cowell has had these games. Hopefully he can get some consistency this year. Because when he's on, he's good. Zendejas also looked like he can contribute soon. Some tough winger depth with Tilman, Booth, & Mihailovic playing well.
     
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  14. RevsRule

    RevsRule Member+

    NE Revs, LAFC
    Jun 9, 1999
    N. Eastern, Mass
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The bottom line is we scored one good goal and let two in. We had some chances but our offense is still lacking. I really want them to get rid of GB so that we can start working in an offense that actually SCORES GOALS. IDK if the temp coach is the guy or not but as long as GB is hanging around, he's not gonna do anything different or he'd be history upon GB's return, We need to move forward and let the new coach get started with his system. One that scores
     
  15. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    vaguely in tiers of closeness/readiness for the first team, according to me...

    zim was the break in the wall, acosta was 1 for 3 on five yard flares to gomez on the wing, arriola, long and hoppe were there. couldnt care less.

    pomykal was incredibly disappointing for me. out of season, makeshift jan camp team, blah blah- for him to get a start (in the middle) and be that passive and/or safe (it was a credible late-stage lletget impersonation) is just a huge bummer for me. williamson was able to combine a bit with jones/zendejas but he should have come out with some urgency too. we all have our own feelings on how much these matches mean (some degree of almost nothing for the non-dummies), but they get an f+ and a d- for making a case for themselves.

    i liked most of what i saw from gaga- both goals were somewhat "nothing the keeper can do there" but i think thats a pretty weak cliche. still, i really liked his presence, communication, he did make a couple or three very strong plays (after one steffen-ish, distracted-by-a-butterfly dive for nothing early). good overall. vazquez did what he does, fantastic header though we shouldnt kid ourselves- that serbia team was, well, their version of what we had out there.

    i agree with anyone saying cowell was very clearly the best player on the pitch for us (or had the best perfomance if you want to be a nerd about everything). i have way more experience with him via youth teams that sj, and my biggest concern has been (somewhat ironically) both passivity at times and trying to do too much himself. there were two times i thought he was forcing the issue in a "bad" way but for the most part he showed all the good parts of his game, honestly a good bit better than i expected. showed the fight and initiative i was really hoping to see from pomykal/williamson.

    i disagree that gressel is a slow zusi- zusi is slow. hes a right-sided brad davis. and i was barely interested in jones as a left back, all i saw last night was some kyle duncan/brooks lennon level who cares? the winner at (mls) rb on the night was shaq moore.

    now, for guys who were mostly clean slates for me: neal and morris stood out mostly positively in almost opposite ways. i thought neal showed really good instincts defending one on one, and was genuinely already as good as zim on the ball. his positioning, and reading passing lanes/areas still need a lot of work- but thats good, because those are very coachable things, and he showed promise in the much less teachable aspects of his game.

    conversely morris really impressed me with the use of his body, in how he recieved passes, turned, and opened up in positive positions. he shields the ball really well. we have a pretty notable lack of ability to turn on the ball from guys weve trotted out the last few years, and while i wouldnt say its exactly that (turning on the ball), he positions his body to essentially the same effect. thats very much a coachable/experience thing and he seems well ahead of the curve there. the problem is i dont see a ton of ability beyond that. my immediate comparison was a less "athletic" tanner tessman. also similar to tesserman im not sure i see the ability to plug and play behind adams. maybe with more defensive 8s ahead of him (assuming we keep this general style) but i dunno...i both liked him and dont see a ton of upside. he needs to spend a lot of time watching some beckerman "basic-ass passes for metronomic dummies" tapes. his defensive ability (either covering the backline or breaking plays himself) is still pretty unknown for me.

    while pomykal is my biggest disappointment mainly due to hoping he was/is ready to contribute to the first team in the near-ish future, i thought gomez was our "worst" player (or least ready, ill say, so hopefully less people lose their damn minds over words). i wasnt impressed by his level as an u20. terrible reads, terrible positioning, took terrible lines. other than running onto a ball up the field i didnt see anything even promising. i realize its actively mean but poor mans george bello crossed my mind more than once.

    (random note, but did anyone else think cowell just looked him off all night? im not trying to make a thing out of it- i dont think one match is enough to qualify as a thing- but marcos alonso passed to pulisic more than cowell used gomez pushing up.)

    anyways, sonora was also pretty underwhelming for me- not for quality just...style/fit. call it jft vibes, i guess. lightweight, not great decisions, decent skill but didnt play within what the rest of the team was doing at all. like almost all of this mark it as incomplete (obviously), i just didnt see a lot there. based on last night alone he is multiple full levels away from contributing- he wouldnt be in my mix for u23s (if he even is u23...my point stands regardless).

    that was pretty weird from zendejas, right? a lot of you are a lot cooler with doing absolutely nothing for 70 min before being really interesting for 20 than i am. you gotta be a forward in our garbage offense who gets on the scoresheet to do that little for that long in my book. but throw all the caveats in- new teammates, those teammates arent the best of the best, nerves, etc. he did ultimately show more than pomykal/williamson combined (i really am a little streamed at those guys), so hes on the higher side of my rankings. i think people are getting a little carried away with him (even before the match), but whatever.

    not that this is how it works, but based on last night the guys id like to see run out again are gaga, morris, vazquez and def cowell. not sure if colombia are going to be more of a test or not but those are the guys i want to see more of right now.

    gaga is tricky cause i do think celentano deserves a look as well (im just seeing that he wasnt on the bench- i assume thats just a numbers thing?). i def want to see tolkin (seperately from how unimpressed i was with gomez). and i guess pomykal/williamson ahead of morris woud be the most interesting/potentially insighful cm.

    i just dont want to see the vets at all. man, i just couldnt care less about them right now.
     
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  16. Tony in Quakeland

    Jan 27, 2003
    Pleasant Hill, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Add in his aggressive, attacking off the ball movement. I’ve always said if he could finish, he’d be at Barcelona.

    I’m only half kidding
     
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  17. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Tough game to take much from for me. Maybe my comments sound harsh but the whole thing looked disjointed to me. I guess a lot of that gets chalked up to inexperience and not much time to work together before coming out. It did get better as the minutes passed and we had a decent amount of the ball in the attack but for me the only highlights were some decent attacking from the wings, especially Cowell who was easily the most dangerous player out there for us. Zendejas took a long time to get started but showed some flashes as the game wore on, still need to see more from him but he looked capable. Vazquez scored a very nice goal on a difficult header but otherwise, he wasn't much of a factor. Still, you play at striker and come off with a nice goal and you deserve a pat on the back. Hoppe was disappointing and never really found the game when he came in. Arriola was fine but nothing new there.

    I was disappointed in the midfield; thought we were unable to control the game in the center much. Morris was OK, worked hard and seems to have decent skill on the ball but he made quite a few poor decisions with it. He's got a long way to go. Pomykal was poor for me and I was expecting better. He seems to just be a hair short on several fronts. He's smallish and seems to get bodied too much and while he's decently skilled he doesn't seem skilled enough to make up for getting pushed around. I feel like I've liked what I've seen form him in other games much more than last night. I expected more from Sonora. He seems to strike the ball well but was not effective much at all and never really found his niche. I don't see any of that trio troubling the first team without a lot of improvement. Acosta and WIlliams were slightly better but mostly just helped out by giving us a better physical presence.

    Zimmerman was OK outside of his moving in the wall which was a pretty bad mistake you would not expect from the most capped guy on the field. Long came in and was solid enough without a ton to do. Both goals were pretty poor mistakes in back. It was a shame that Neal was beaten badly as for much of the game he looked like a real prospect. I still think he seems to bring a lot to the table and should be interesting to watch over the longer term. Stays calm and passes pretty well to go along with good mobility and some size. Gressel hit a nice cross but was otherwise the worst player on the field for us to my eyes. At 29, he needs to show a lot more. He's already the same age as Yedlin who I'm not much of a fan of but who looks much more solid once we get low on the depth chart at right back. Gomes was just too sloppy, good moments but needs to clean it up a lot. He seems to make it up field and get into good positions with the ball but does a lot of stumbling over it and never really made anything happen. Jones was spotty, good moments but too many poor touches. So, the old hands were OK and none of the new guys really looked like they are anywhere close to taking on a significant role with some hopeful stuff from Neal who needs to get a lot more experience. Gomes and Jones are young and could certainly step up eventually, but they need a lot of improvement.

    Gaga was interesting. He had a couple really impressive plays and I like his overall aggressiveness and his attitude, seems to want to dominate his area and beyond. But, he also misplayed a couple things and looked more of a high-risk proposition back there that will give you some big saves but lacks the consistency needed for the spot. He'll grow and learn, but will he get there by 2026? At least he looks to have the tools to eventually put it together and be something.

    Overall, a few interesting performances from players who will still need to show significantly more (Cowell, Zendejas, Neal, Gaga) and a lot of guys who need to step it up if they want to go beyond filing out the numbers in the lower stakes camps. Will be interesting to see how much things improve for the next game with a bit more time together and players are able to get a bit more comfortable.
     
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  18. United1

    United1 Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Arlington, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Neal is lightyears away from playing with the full national team. He can certainly get better and in the future have an opportunity, but some of the worst defensive moments in this game were due to Neal's lack of instincts and positioning. The play in the first half when he allowed the Serbian player to roll into the box unimpeded was criminal. And the 2nd goal was almost all on him. Hopefully he gets minutes at the club level this year to iron out some of these glaring issues.
     
  19. Yowza

    Yowza Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Oct 23, 2019
    Arlington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe the most entertaining January matches I've seen. Serbia had a couple of guys that were top notch and fun to watch.

    I throw out the first 15, the midfield had to get sorted and the players had to find their legs. I thought Pomykal, although not a great showing overall, calmed the team down just by being available for an outlet. He found the right spots to show. Sonora looked quite capable but also with some bad giveaways. Morris was the most impressive for me. Hopefully he can have a really strong season in MLS and build off this good but inconsistent performance. He was a real presence in the middle when the US had the ball, but a few too many wayward passes and defensively he didn't have it. Still, I want to see more next January if not sooner.

    Gressel was exactly what I expected. He's a guy you bring in when you need a goal and are willing to throw caution to the wind because oof not getting it done defensively. I thought Gomez showed why people are excited by him, but man he needs minutes. Nothing like experience to push his progress along. He was also ragdolled repeatedly but to his credit he didn't hang his head, unlike Sonora who I thought showed some frustration and didn't really fight through it. I thought Pomykal looked like a guy who will be just short of requirements for the US as he's not a kid anymore.

    Vazquez looked very preseasony, but what a goal. Nowhere but up from here for him, just stay healthy. Cowell (motm) and Zendejas were the best on the day. I loved seeing Cowell oozing confidence taking guys on. He's another guy to who absolutely has to play for his club and work on the end product. Zendejas was zipping around the field, found some good interplay with teammates (impressive considering he just started playing with them a couple days ago), and he has another gear he can reach whereas Arriola will never be that guy.

    Really interesting game. There were times when it looked like US had it in the bag, completely shutting down Serbia and doing what they wanted with the ball. But then they made mistakes and Serbia were classy in cashing them in. Zimmerman had a match he'd like to forget, and while I liked Neal, he needs to play first team minutes before looking at him again.
     
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  20. aeschylusdanceparty

    NYRB
    United States
    Jun 3, 2021
    Not really worried about the couple of hiccups Slonina had. You can see why a bunch of teams wanted an 18 year old goalie. He will be coached up in the decision making, but I'm not sure you can teach that sort of presence in the box. Vasquez looks ... potentially useful? Given the limitations with our pool of strikers, I don't know how you don't give him some chances with the first team. Maybe it doesn't pan out, and he will never be "name your great striker here," but he probably should get some run with the full team. Zendejas definitely has the technique, and also seems significantly stronger than I thought for a pretty small guy, and while he really only turned it on in the last 20-25, meh, the Jan camp and all that. Definitely like to see him get more looks. And finally Cowell. I really hope he puts it together and brings the intensity and focus every day, because if he does, he should be somewhere in Europe sooner rather than later, and a contributor to the National team.

    As for the poster who joked about Arriola, I've always agreed. I've always liked him more than than the typical US fan. Dude is an athlete, smart, puts in the effort, and unfortunately can't finish a fart.

    Anyway, I think we are really looking at Slonina, Zendejas, and Cowell, and maybe Vasquez a bit given the striker pool, which honestly is fine for a Jan camp. Cade has to put it together and Zendajas has to commit, but I think they could quickly be with the first choice team if they do.
     
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  21. eagercolin

    eagercolin Member

    Metro
    United States
    Aug 25, 2017
    Buffalo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I mean, if only three guys who played in this game go on to contribute to the full team, that's actually a great result.
     
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  22. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He never fails to impress and then frustrate. Great guy and teammate. Very good athlete. Gets in terrific positions off ball and nothing comes out of it.

    If he could somehow develop a finish he'd never come off the field for me.
     
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  23. aeschylusdanceparty

    NYRB
    United States
    Jun 3, 2021
    Couldn't agree more. If we get 2 1/2 contributors, with Vasquez being the half, from a Jan camp, and this one in particular, coming off a World Cup where we had a pretty solid 11? That's positive to me.
     
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  24. fishmonger

    fishmonger Member

    Jul 2, 2014
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    There was a famous Aussie prank tv host who did phoney interviews but celebs from other countries didn't know him and weren't in on the gag....so he looks at Linda McCartney during an interview with Paul and blurts out, "funny, you don't look Chinese..." His most famous one was with Boy George " A little advice, ya don't need so much make up for Australian tv; a little Helena Rubinstein and you're good to go...should I call you Boy or George?" or words to that effect....
     
  25. SoccerFanInIA

    SoccerFanInIA Member

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Oct 28, 2021
    You probably should’ve checked your expectations at the door if I’m honest, in the most polite way possible.
     

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