US women soccer players want equal pay to US men's team.

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by SUDano, Mar 31, 2016.

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  1. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Then why didn't they negotiate a CBA based on the one negotiated by the men? What's lost here is that the pay has been collectible bargained. There was an offer to negotiate a shared CBA but that was shot down during early 2000s.
     
  2. Caulfield

    Caulfield Member

    May 31, 2004
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  3. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Have them play a couple friendlies in our current WCQ group. Even St Vincent would have a good a chance at a result.

    They just aren't equivalent sports.
     
  4. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't really know that one could substantiate the other claim either. Historically, average USWNT attendance is lower. It really is difficult to quantify who is rooting for who and I don't think that matters. It's a fact of life in American soccer.
     
  5. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Obviously the time frames and revenue stats are cherry-picked to make the ladies look good in comparison, and the fact that around the world the men's game generates exponentially more revenue means the U.S. men have to invest more in kind to potentially compete and secure a piece of the much bigger pie. If their salaries were substantially reduced, would we have secured the services of the likes of John Brooks or even Christian Pulisic, who could have opted to play elsewhere, somewhere that they provide vastly greater compensation because the sport is indeed very popular there already? Especially for the young guys, which is when you're competing to cap-tie them, national team opportunities can be a big supplement to their income, or in some cases, primary.

    I'm not going to argue that the women don't deserve to have their pay increased. They do. It's ridiculous, for example, they don't even get paid after x amount of games played in a year. But the idea they deserve equal pay as men is equally as ridiculous, and either coming from a position of massive bias or it's negotiating tactic while knowing full well they're inherently less relevant on the grand scale. A few years ago they lost to the U.S. u-17 boys 8-2. How far they advance in tournaments is all relative. Their tournament payouts pale in comparison because people on a grand scale understandably care much more about the sport being played at potentially the highest level, in the same way they care so much more about the EPL than the Slovenian 1st division (all of whose teams would annihilate the USWNT I'm sure). A mediocre team in the EPL and their players earn dramatically more than those in the Slovenian 1st division. Always going to be that way, always should. This is not a charity or necessary service. It's entertainment. You get what you collectively draw. Stats leading some to believe that the U.S. women contribute to American/worldwide interest as much as the U.S. men in the average year are grossly manipulative.

    Unfortunately for USS, the USMNT's failures the last year under Klinsmann w/ their many experiments under the guise that they are future-minded have given the USWNT and their lawyers more ammo here to negotiate on their behalf and give them a p.r. nightmare. I hope this is the straw that breaks the camel's back in regards to Sunil, but that cat has more than nine lives.
     
  6. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    hard to argue with them. You could use revenue OR you could use success. I would choose success and consider USSF lucky that the women don't demand far more than our men.
     
  7. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    Per the Wall Street Journal 'When their demand for equal pay came up then, Mr. Kessler said, the federation called it “an irrational request.'

    It's clear and unsurprising that the crux of their argument will be emotional and not tied to logic. They make less, so they earn less.

    It's also clear from the garbage going around the media today that they'll be spinning the story in favor of the women's team.

    Per Time's website:

    'The pay gap is even more egregious when you look at the prize money offered by FIFA, soccer’s worldwide governing body. While the U.S. women’s team won $2 million from the organization for winning the tournament last year, the German men’s team collected $35 million after they emerged victorious at the 2014 World Cup, CNN Money reported. That amounts to female American players receiving less than 6 cents for every $1 earned by the German men.'

    This is the level of thinking these people are operating at. No questioning as to why they are paid so differently, better to just put your fingers in your ears and yell.
     
  8. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    Except you couldn't because we're dealing with the real world and not whatever fantasy world you reside in. They're asking for money. Money comes from revenue. It doesn't come from success.

    Do you work a job? What do you believe your pay is based on?
     
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  9. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    My pay is based on performance. How do the USA women draw? Damn well, PLUS they win. One more year with Klinsy and our men will break (out) of the top 50 teams.
     
  10. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    False, your pay is based on the amount of money you bring to the company you work for. You can perform better relative to your position than the CEO to his but he will make more than you for obvious reasons. The rest is down to negotiating.

    Nobody put a gun to their heads and told them to accept it. They could have refused to play if they felt they had a legitimate claim. But they didn't and signed on the dotted line, and now want to stop playing adult because they likely realize their limited income prospects elsewhere.
     
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  11. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    Maybe yours does, mine doesn't
     
  12. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    What else would they hire you for? Because you're a nice guy?
     
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  13. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    I'm a scientist. I don't get paid by the paper. Harvard does not make one more cent whether I publish 2 papers per year or 5. Not everyone gets paid per profit. Its a big world out there.
     
  14. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    People are paid what they are worth. You may not think so, but it's a fact, whether you'd like to believe it or not. The fact that you referred to getting 'paid by the paper' demonstrates how narrow your thinking on the subject is.

    In such a case, Harvard's ability to operate at the level it does depends on many factors, one of which is prestige. That prestige is what allows Harvard to be the world-renown institution that is, a position that brings much revenue. That prestige, in turn, is based on many factors, of which include the perceived quality of the professors teaching/researching at the school. It's tied to their performance, as you mentioned, but you failed to to take that step further.
     
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  15. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    and of course, prestige of the USSF is greatly affected by the USWNT winning the WC! So we don't disagree after all.
     
  16. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wants more money to cover her legal fees?
     
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  17. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    sn
    snarky but off point. Harkes was putting his pud in anyplace possible.
     
  18. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some odd cherry-picking in the original article:

    The complaint lays out some compelling numbers. Men earn as much as $17,625 for an exhibition match against a top opponent, according to the court document, and get no less than $5,000 even if the team loses.

    But women are paid a maximum of $4,950 even if they win every game. And they're only paid for the first 20 exhibition games they play each year -- they aren't paid anything for any games beyond that. Men get paid for each game, no matter how many exhibition games they play.

    And the men's team earned $9 million in the 2014 World Cup for losing in the round of 16, while the women made $2 million when they won the 2015 championship.


    The 1st point... that's the only pay the men may get for that match. If they get called in, but not on the gameday roster, no pay. The women are on a salary plus their $1350 game fees. Plus the men aren't a shoe-in to win against a top opponent.

    And no men's team plays 20 exhibition games a year.

    And the $9/$2 million numbers are what FIFA paid the federation.
     
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  19. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    Was FIFA's prize money to the USMNT for the 2014 World Cup based on the prestige of the federation? That'd be news to me. I'd also love to hear how you would quantify the positive financial impact the USWNT's success has had on the USMNT, as that's what you're essentially saying.
     
  20. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    People get paid what they are willing to accept (and what the organization thinks they are worth). I say this as a recruiter who has been involved in the hiring of 100s of people.
     
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  21. Caulfield

    Caulfield Member

    May 31, 2004
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm sure they have tried, but it's hard to demand when you have no leverage or negotiating power.
     
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  22. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    have the same exact leverage as our men. Very little.
     
  23. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    PLEASE don't use FIFA as a model for how anything should be done. In fact, it is like Seinfeld's bizarro world. Whatever FIFA does, do the opposite.
    Tennis pays men's and women's players the same. That is a better comparator. The world did not stop rotating.
     
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  24. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    Thus why I said what they are worth, with the rest down to negotiating. They faltered in the process, and now want to cry foul.
     
  25. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What someone negotiates is different than what they are worth, even from an economic standpoint.
     

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