US women soccer players want equal pay to US men's team.

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by SUDano, Mar 31, 2016.

  1. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    The manic phase is so great*.

    * this is an untrue statement.
     
  2. Deep Wilcox

    Deep Wilcox BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 5, 2007
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I suppose it has been mentioned in the last 226 pages but: The women get paid less because nobody goes to the games. Money people just count heads, and frankly, the general public thinks Mia Hamm is still on the team.
    The guys on the Rochester Rhinos get paid less than the guys at Man City. Do you think it's because Man City is better? It isn't. It's eyes on the game. Nobody watches women's soccer.
     
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  3. YankBastard

    YankBastard Na Na Na Na NANANANAAA!

    Jun 18, 2005
    Estados Unidos
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly. It doesn't matter if the women win the cup while the men get destroyed in the round of 16. More people are watching the men's tournament, therefor the men get paid more. Women thinking they're entitled to the men's money is unjust, IMO. Especially since the women's professional league is subsidized by US Soccer. They never mention or bother to thank US Soccer for it. They just complain that they're not getting paid enough.
     
  4. YankBastard

    YankBastard Na Na Na Na NANANANAAA!

    Jun 18, 2005
    Estados Unidos
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  5. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    People don't make what they deserve, they make what they have the leverage to secure for themselves.

    The women had the press, the sponsors, and much of the fanbase on their side and they got the bag, good for them. Let there be peace now.
     
  6. diablodelsol

    diablodelsol Member+

    Jan 10, 2001
    New Jersey
    Again….the men could have kept their mouths shut and stayed out of it. Once they came out in public supporting the women…this was the only result…their money going to the women. They’re (the men’s PA) fine with it…so I’m not sure why the rest of us have a problem with it.
     
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  7. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, and I'm pretty sure everyone would agree that's not cool either. I know I would. Because it's weird to have a system in which players benefit from performace for which they are not responsible. It's kind of a fundamental principle relating to fairness, I'd say -- again, it's no man's fault that people care about the World Cup much, much, much more than the Women's World Cup.
     
  8. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    That is demonstrably false.
     
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  9. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He’s certainly wrong that “nobody watches it” but he’s correct that it’s far less popular.

    And it’s not because of discrimination. Advertisers and sports corporations would love to make bank from literally anything. But for most people the very slow pace of women’s soccer is quite boring. Women’s soccer would be better on a smaller field where they have less time to meander on the ball.
     
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  10. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    I am by no means an avid watcher of the women's game, but at events like the WWC I have found the soccer to be quite good actually, and something that entertains in a similar way to the men's game (something women's basketball just fundamentally doesn't do).

    Women's soccer has a lot of commercial potential, maybe more so than any other women's sport. I think we're already seeing that in many ways.

    That's not to say it's ever going to achieve revenue parity with the men's game. But that's not the be-all-end-all question for what the USWNT should be paid relative to the USMNT.
     
  11. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure it’s fine to watch once every four years but your average male soccer fan isn’t going to spend his limited weekly hours dedicated to women’s soccer over the EPL or MLS or whatever.

    if women want the women to get paid more they should spend their own time and money following the team. But largely they won’t. Most fans will end up being dads with daughters taking them to the game. Which is perfectly fine and good but let’s not delude ourselves otherwise.
     
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  12. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    "Far less" is also a bit overstated, though you can't always make apples-to-apples comparison.

    There's no question, of course, that WNT lawyers and advocates relied on some cherry-picked data points (and compared TV ratings only on English-language TV, which belies a bit of privilege on their own part).

    Details:

    https://duresport.com/womens-soccer-pay-resource-page/
     
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  13. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My daughter is enough into soccer to have been on her high school team for two years, and she finds the women’s game too slow. I can’t get her to watch even the WWC.

    I think the men’s goals should be about 5% bigger, and I agree that the field should be 5% smaller.
     
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  14. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nothing to do with privilege, just craven selfishness and a loose relationship with the truth. Insane that the media went along with it but they go along with every woke outcry regardless of the facts.
     
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  15. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Please delete the political part your political post. Cmon man.
     
  16. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It won’t let me!

    everyone ignore, it never happened
     
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  17. Chicago76

    Chicago76 Member+

    Jun 9, 2002
    The 2022 men’s and 2019 women’s cups are fairly good comparisons due to game times. Through three group games, the men outdrew the women on Fox through group + 3 knockout rounds. Add the women’s final and the men’s R16 (which weee very close) and the men’s still outdrew the women


    I think there is a strong case to be made that the women may have attracted more additional viewers as the run of the mill non YS men’s cup match has more viewers than the same on the women’s side. But this also excludes Spanish language broadcasts where the US men far outpace the women.
     
  18. Deep Wilcox

    Deep Wilcox BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 5, 2007
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is no commercial potential to speak of. The league has been in existence for a decade and the average attendance is 5,000 people per game. And TV? No. And they worked some silly buddy deal so that NWSL players also got to be the National Team. Form? No forget that. Just the "national team players".

    I really don't care. Whatever they can pull off is fine with me, and they are going to get a big payout because the men made the round of 16. But I'm not going to pretend this is a real league. I honestly think they should just say "thanks".
     
  19. Chastaen

    Chastaen Member+

    Alavés
    Jul 9, 2004
    Winnipeg
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The lack of interest in soccer is a bit of a double whammy for the women. It could be argued that getting political garnered them more attention in the US than their play on the field. The Women's game is still growing, just like the Mens game in many areas. But I'd not bet decent money on it being a huge success.
     
  20. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    NWSL ratings took off with the pandemic, and they have more clubs drawing five figures now.
     
  21. Chastaen

    Chastaen Member+

    Alavés
    Jul 9, 2004
    Winnipeg
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think they had 2 clubs draw 5 figures, which was the same as 2019. I'd say took off is quite an exaggeration.

    Average attendance
    2019 7,389
    2020 Closed Doors
    2021 5,528
    2022 7,894
     
  22. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    Ratings: https://mobile.twitter.com/nwslnotes
     
  23. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    By the way, compare that attendance of ~8k to some secondary men's leagues in Europe.
    Check out Croatia since they're on our minds..............................
     
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  24. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    Farther back on attendance:
     

    Attached Files:

  25. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    Bear in mind - I’m not exactly an NWSL apologist these days: https://duresport.com/2022/12/16/the-nwsl-usa-curling-and-the-dangers-of-inadequate-investigations/

    And yes, the numbers that were thrown around in the WNT lawsuit were cherry-picked, if not totally wrong. They also compared TV ratings without adding in the Spanish-language broadcasts, which is borderline racist and explains a lot about how freakishly white women’s soccer still is.

    But you just can’t come in here with made-up stats and claim no one is going or watching. And I think what we’re finally seeing, as we saw in MLS and US men’s soccer 10-12 years ago, is that we have a sustained audience rather than waves around big events.
     
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