Us vs ES General Postgame Thread (R)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Lloyd Heilbrunn, Jul 21, 2013.

  1. ebbro

    ebbro Member+

    Jun 10, 2005
    The position paper from US Soccer says you have to assess the situation the moment he touches the ball. They make the point to separate touching the ball from passing it back to the corner kick taker. In any case if you look at the video posted earlier at :26 it appears Donovan is still offsides at the moment Torres releases the ball.
     
  2. FW__

    FW__ Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    Chattanooga, TN
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    2007 at Soldier Field? No, it was not. I was in the upper deck, behind one of the goals. There were groups of American fans scattered throughout every single section of the upper deck , plus several blocks in the lower deck, including a couple of entire sections. It wasn't 2-3,000. No way, not even close. Mexico dwarfed us, but we had 15,000 fans there. Again, they had 70-75%, but it was not even close to 95%. Giants Stadium in 2009 was closer to 95% that, but still not that.
     
  3. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I agree.
    When Benny scored his goal there were a lot more cheers than i thought there would be.

    I would say it was closer to 80% Mexican though.
     
  4. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    http://www.ussoccer.com/news/coachesnet/2008/04/position-paper-offside-offense-on-a-corner-kick.aspx
    I just read the position paper. I'm surprised to see that in there because it doesn't make sense. What if Torres trapped the ball and then passed it. The pass rather than the initial touch would be the time you would need to look for offsides.
     
  5. FW__

    FW__ Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    Chattanooga, TN
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Whatever the exact number, it always seems like there are less US fans. But watch the highlights here. Not great and you can only see a small section of Soldier Field, but there are US fans cheering in these shots in every section shown, and not just the "supporters sections." Sure sounds like more than 3,000 fans overall too.

    Because US fans don't wear one color (Green or Blue) like Mexico or Honduras, we don't stick out, which why people are always shocked at how many fans leave their feet to cheer a US goal, when people assume that the stadium is 95% for the other side.



    Here is another one in Spanish where you can see more and hear more US fans

     
  6. ebbro

    ebbro Member+

    Jun 10, 2005
    I believe the AR must reassess at that time.

    From Advice to Referees by US Soccer...
    Also in ATR when discussing interfering with play they say...

     
  7. Dignan

    Dignan Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Granada
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    The thing is we already know he can do it against better competition. Yeah, he won't do it as often, but the fact that he is tearing through the Gold Cup competition, pretty much means he is good to go. He starts in the next two qualifiers, or clearly JK is over thinking it.

    He just makes the team so much better.

    In any case, even if JK decided to belabor the point, he will at least start calling him into the A team, and it is only a matter of time before LD forces the issue and gets into the starting lineup.

    I think it is pretty obvious we are a much more dangerous team with LD.
     
  8. Dignan

    Dignan Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Granada
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    The absurdity also was when the Salvadorans were raining down bottles and stuff at Donovan on the corner kick, and then when Landon walked away to not get hit and then two Slavadoran players starting pushing him around for it. What a bunch of idiot sore losers.

    I believe we were up by 3 goals at that point, they should have been thankful for the delay because it probably kept a 6th goal from going in.
     
  9. MartSkin

    MartSkin Member

    Oct 8, 2001
    Right Back
    Crixus = Dempsey
    Gannicus = Bradley
     
  10. TBR

    TBR Member

    Mar 15, 2007
    DMV
    Club:
    CD Aguila
    Nat'l Team:
    El Salvador
    Took a day to cool down. Just want to congratulate you all on the win. My entire problem was always the way you guys didn't seem to respect my team pre-game with certain comments...but nothing I can say after the final result. I was at the game and this is my footage (Salvadoran prospective, so just ES highlights)



    Good luck the rest of the way and cheers.
     
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  11. Fanatical Monk

    Fanatical Monk Member+

    Jun 14, 2011
    Fantasyland
    Yeah, I wonder how Waldo felt about his guy acting like an idiot on that corner after felating him on national television earlier. He clammed up on it pretty good. I'm sure inside he was seething.

    Concacrap has to do a better job with security. I cannot imagine what kind of mess there will be in Dallas if they dont' have enough security. If they have anywhere close to capacity, it could be ugly. 70k+ Mexicans + facing Hondurans. There will be a distinct anti-American flavor I'm guessing.
     
  12. Bookmesir

    Bookmesir Member

    Oct 14, 2012
    Club:
    FC Aarau
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good thing we were up by more than just a goal at the time. If we continue to score 3+ in the semi-final, this will hopefully mitigate a percentage of the Honduran fans who might otherwise feel as though they could affect the match by throwing sh#t onto the field. If its a close match, the fervor will be harder to subdue.
    It appeared as though the collection of objects landing near LD were mostly drinking cups and things made of plastic. Its immediately over the top and beyond acceptance to throw anything onto the field...when it becomes coins and/or batteries, we're looking at criminal assault with intent to injure. The plastic objects (including sunglasses) certainly distracted LD to the point where he rightfully walked away to diffuse the moment. Security has to move in on those people without hesitancy and at least usher them to a holding area away from the field, if not eject them from the stadium all together.
     
  13. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2009
    Using too many parentheses
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa

    Awesome footage, thanks for sharing, and good luck to you guys in your upcoming games.
     
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  14. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    How is any Linsman supposed to see this on the other side of the field through all those players.
    They aren't. The inherent weakness of the offside rule, sometimes they just can't see it and process multiple moving parts all at the same time. We always assume they can but they always can't.
     
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  15. ebbro

    ebbro Member+

    Jun 10, 2005
    I don't assume they can. I've already said you can't blame the AR for not calling it. We still debate it with the benefit of frame by frame analysis. You still have to have a rule and guidelines to attempt to apply.

    The point is that by the law and it's guidelines he appears to be offside. The reality is I've never seen an offsides call on a similar play - probably because it's too difficult to see in real time (especially if the AR is on the far side), the play is so common, and most of the time the player is actually onsides.
     
  16. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    I agree with you. Even many 'easy' offside calls are difficult and wrong. This one is so difficult the AR 70 yards awasy just couldn't process and see pass, ball stopped, foot off ball, Donovan, and 2 El Salvador players in about one second.
     
  17. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would guess that when US fans know they are outnumbered in hostile territory, they aren't as likely to make their presence known by a shirt or something obvious.
     
  18. Dignan

    Dignan Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Granada
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Yeah, actually in Europe you can take your kids and wives to games with no problems (sans Turkey and maybe Serbia). Same goes for club football. I have a friend who lives in Rome and regularly takes his kids to Roma games. I take my kids to FC Granada games all the time. The UK pretty much wiped out all of its stadium and fan issues, and the EPL has become a very family friendly places, except maybe for Millwall. These days the violence is limited to outside the stadiums. European football used to be fairly dangerous at all levels, witness Heysel, Hillsborough, and other horrible events. Sure every once and a while an event happens but it is dealt with swiftly and with impunity. Two years ago a guy at a Granada game (in the rain) threw an umbrella at a ref and hit him, he got three years in prison and about a $5000 fine. I think the club was fined as well.

    There is absolutely no good reason I can't take my kids to see a US soccer game in Dallas, but I can't.

    And this isn't just a cultural issue (although culture plays a part). Witness the famous Sam Wyche quote of "You don't live in Cleveland!" to Bengals fans when they were throwing things on the field in an NFL game. Certain cities had a bad habit (in the 80s and 90s) of throwing snowballs laced with batteries onto the field, and other things. The NFL cracked down.

    No one on the field or in the stands should have to fear for their safety or lives. It is inexcusable.

    All they need to do is ramp up security and use cameras to ban, fine, and prosecute offending fans. You just have to make an example of a few people and all the issues will go away.

    I really wish Ives or Grant, or someone in the press would tackle the issue to put some pressure on US soccer and CONCACAF.
     
  19. Dignan

    Dignan Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Granada
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I think they just start throwing stuff and acting like idiots when they lose.

    If they had won, my guess is that they wouldn't have done anything. It is maybe a collective frustration that the US is so much better than they are in soccer.
     
  20. COMtnGuy

    COMtnGuy Member+

    Apr 5, 2012
    Higher than you
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Very True but AS Roma supporters (Hardly are they alone with this) still bring their Banana's in for teams with African players, maybe not the best example of a family friendly team. Plus "Derby della Capitale (AS v Lazio) is not where you want young kids either, in my experience.

    FC Barcelona is actually one of the more "wife, kid" friendly places to see a game, much less so when Madrid comes to town. Valencia would also fit here.
     
  21. FW__

    FW__ Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    Chattanooga, TN
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don think its that so much as US fans wearing red, white or blue instead of one color.
     
  22. Dignan

    Dignan Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Granada
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Whatever was going on there, it was a very dangerous situation. What you really want to watch out for is panic and a large amount of fans starting to run in one direction, that is when people get trampled and killed.

    Unacceptable. This should be brought to the press's attention and something should be written about this to put pressure on US soccer. Those who can be identified should be prosecuted and banned.
     
  23. FW__

    FW__ Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    Chattanooga, TN
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mexican fans throw stuff, win, lose or draw.
     
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  24. dwsmith1972

    dwsmith1972 BigSoccer Supporter

    May 11, 2007
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought he initially tried to spin it as some absurd "yeah, that kid isn't afraid of anything" type remark. It seemed like he was fumbling to link that act with all the praise he had heaped and some sort of cognitive dissonance took over rendering even him momentarily speechless.
     
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  25. Bookmesir

    Bookmesir Member

    Oct 14, 2012
    Club:
    FC Aarau
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Too bad this didn't have a longer lasting effect...Wynalda has been simply awful as the color commentator since he left the Rob Stone & Co. group during US Gold Cup matches.
     

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