A team of uncapped Bundesliga journeymen might not make it far in a WC, but they'd never embarass themselves like we did last night. 1/9/01 WC Qualifier München Germany 1-5 England [Carsten Jancker 6 - Michael Owen 13, 48, 66, Steven Gerrard 45, Emile Heskey 73] They weren't uncapped journeymen, in fact they went on to the 2002 final (in part thanks to Hugh Dallas). That doesn't mean that we're going to the 2010 final, but what happened last night has absolutely no bearing on how we will do in SA and no reflection of the overall soccer culture. It was just a matter of several fringe players demonstrating why they're fringe players. We played well in our last "must-win" match - at Honduras. Got a gutty result on the road against a team desperate for 3 points. Since then it's been very uninspiring. Rallying from 0-2 against CR in a match they desperately needed wasn't pretty but it was anything but uninspiring.
I was really confused by the idea of starting Findley and Cunningham against Honduras, but it does show the dilemma of this kind of friendly - evaluating players vs. playing well/winning. If you're looking at beating hondo you want to be whipping in crosses all day long and challenging Valladares as much as possible (as the US lone goal proved) - you would not plan to beat them just with speed on the ground. I understand Bob wants to look at JC and Findley, but if you are looking to play well as well you give each of them 45 minutes with a Casey or Ching or Cooper. I saw at least 3 times Cunningham dribbled into 3 and 4 guys because Hondo was prepared to collapse and absorb his runs. If we'd had someone in the middle to attract defenders speed might have worked a bit on the wing. You would never play Hondo to win with those two forwards, esp. once we went down a man.
The red card changed everything (shock). Dubious card or not, when you've already got one yellow and you're the grizzled vet who is on the field for leadership you simply can not do what Conrad did. Hate it for him but boneheaded and he's done. Perkins would be my no. 4 not 3. Shame Alston got hurt and Cameron showed poorly in camp. Dax & Bodoya going to crack the A-team midfield by June but are interesting for post SA. That first goal vs T&T was nice. 1 touch, outside of the foot, over the keeper, 20+yds out. Keeper was too far out, of course, to get beat like that. And Sydney Leroux is ripping it up.
Wow, it took 260 posts to get this pointed out... When Marshall did that, I thought 'Wtf', but I also thought the Conrad could have fouled in a less obvious way or even wait a bit to see how many defenders were covering - he wasn't the last defender even at that point.
Where the hell are Castillo & Torrez? Isn't the purpose of the winter camp to look at some new blood that might help THIS cycle. I would ask why Bradely keeps selecting the Goodsen's, Beckermans, Wynne's & Kiljestan's of this world. They don't produce at all unless we're playing a "C" team from Scandinavia. They should be dropped & Cunningham has also played his way off the squad. I'm glad he gave Findley a runout but he's not for this cycle. Hell, Omar Gonzales isn't for this cycle either but ought to get a sniff rather than what was in the middle last night. I turned the match off at about 65 minutes when I realized the best player we had on the pitch was Bornstein. Bornstein for God's sake!!! The one guy who will start in SA simply because Bob won't try anything new out there.
But let's also realize that the MLS-based talent pool in 2010 isn't quite what it was when Arenas was coaching. Yes we beat a Denmark side 5:0 in 2006 at the same point in the cycle, and that US squad featured MLS-based players who'd go on to play significant roles at WC06 like Donovan, Wolff, Ching, Dempsey, Olson, Hejduk, Johnson and Pope. Mix in a few MLS veterans like Reis, Zavagnin, Klein, Twellman, and even Adu, and you have more players who played roles in the Gold Cup and WCQ campaigns. What we saw yesterday was a group of less experienced MLS players who have not, by and large, been part of the USMNT WC effort. The Gold Cup was the last time most of those guys saw time in a camp. I'm not arguing that Bob has done the job with what he's had, as I think I've made it clear that I do not. But the MLS talent pool isn't what it was, and when you factor in the off-season, some inconsistency is to be expected. It has to be factored into an evaluation. That doesn't excuse what we saw from a Conrad, Wynne, or Kljestan in my view, but I don't think you can fairly extend that argument to suggest that a Marshall, Perkins, Rogers, or Findley doesn't deserve further consideration after last night.....
And, if they weren't playing for their club and Bradley brought them in and did play them anyway, surely he would have played them at the wrong positions. But, if they weren't playing for their clubs, Bradley did bring them in and did play them anyway, and then did play them at their right positions, his tactics would have sucked so they couldn't succeed. But, if they weren't playing for their clubs, Bradley brought them in and did play them anyway, then did play them at their right positions and with proper tactics, then surely Bradley would have put players around them that sucked and made them suck. ad nauseaum...
They may not be there, validating your concern. Here are the players born in 1998 or later (U23-age) in MLS: Nelson Gonzalez David Habarugira Peri Marosevic Stephane Assengue Nana Attakora Yamith Cuesta David Myrie Rodney Wallace Fuad Ibrahim Kenny Mansally Sainey Nyassi Sanna Nyassi Emmanuel Gomez Amadou Sanyang Alex Nimo Gabe Gala Steve Zakuani Blake Wagner Kevin Alston Amaechi Igwe Tyler Deric Jeremy Hall Omar Gonzalez Anthony Wallace Gerson Mayen Kyle Davies Jorge Flores Danny Cruz Brek Shea Josh Lambo Tristan Bowen Cesar Zamora Giorgi Chirgadze Of the US-eligible talent, only Gonzalez and Alston stand out as any sort of real long term talent. The rest project as solid pros who may get a sniff at the International level. I strongly believe there is something broken in US Soccer. The system is recently not converting nearly enough very good 12-14 year old players into the players needed to compete at an International Level. I have seen no new developments, including the Development Academy effort, that lead me to believe the development situation in the US is getting substantially better. To bring it back to this thread's subject, those saying the US may have just been beaten by a better set of players may be exactly right.
By that same logic, the US beat Egypt and #1 Spain and took Brazil to the limit in SA last summer. Algeria should be shaking in their boots. Yes, the US will have to play at it's best to advance next summer. Algeria and Slovenia are very good teams and will fancy their chances vs the US. Let the better team win.
It's a little discouraging to think that the pool of US talent in MLS is getting much worse. Fielhaber and Goodsen, arguably two of the better players last night, aren't even MLS. Lots of talk about one-touch passing. That is one thing I noticed Kyle Beckerman doing - he surveyed the field and got rid of the ball on a one-touch pass pretty fast at times. Looked to be superior to the others in that regard.
LOL, I know what you're saying . . . though it happens so infrequently (going positive) you really have to look for it. I can't for the life of me understand why more people aren't down on Beckerman . . . he's the friggin central midfielder and he creates absolutely NOTHING. His passes are inaccurate, poorly weighted, and usually backwards. His form on the one shot he took was downright embarrassing. Don't get it.
Where to start with the reignited "Fire Bob" rants. We got to the Confederations Cup final because of his tactical awareness. As repiticious as his subs were, it got us to where we wanted to be and it gave our players a new flame that we didn't even have in 2002. We now know that we can accomplish the goals that are set in place. The term upset means nothing to our players anymore. Of course, Bob wasn't the best that we could've hired when the position was open, but I guarentee you, we've accomplished more than anyone expected under his reign. I think we can all quit talking about how bad our MLS based pool is. This is the first time in our history that we can hold a camp with very few players that could be World Cup bound. For this game to grow in the states, our fans have to begin to be more optimistic and quit ranting about unrealistic scarios. Going into the World Cup, when Gooch, Dempsey, and possibly Davies are healthy, all Bob needs to worry about is establishing an attacking mentality (something Bruce did not do in 06) and select the right players, which is easy for him right now. If he can't do that vs England then, yeah, I'll start worrying. And I will be honest in my opinion, regardless of how well we do this summer, I don't think Bob will retain his position. I think if we're successful, and by successful, I mean quarterfinals, we'll be in a position where we can hire a high profile coach that can develop our pool and give our MLS players more drive in the run up to 2014.
Sorry I'm still working my way through all the posts, but had to comment. This is so true and not just tonight but every game including with the full A team. When can look pretty fluid on the break (see Davies and Donovan vs Brazil in the Confed Cup), but otherwise we are an extremely static team. I'm not sure if this is due to coaching, the players, the lack of a consistent system our players grow up in so they know where to move to, but while I don't expect us to look like Spain, it would be nice if we could figure out that soccer is a game of passing and moving, not passing from one stationary player to another. This may also be one reason why Dempsey looks better for Fulham in they are typical of many Premiere league teams in that everyone is moving all the time trying to go full throttle (even when they should sometimes slow it down).
As a coach, you cannot expect the same one trick to work time and again. Right now you can bet every move of the USMNT is being reviewed and analyzed by the Slovenians, Algerians and English.
Well, it's a rough comparison but here it goes : for the 5:0 win over the Norway's domestics (not really their National side), this was the US roster : USA: Kevin Hartman, Frankie Hejduk, Eddie Pope (Ugo Ihemelu 84), Jimmy Conrad, Todd Dunivant, Clint Dempsey (Santino Quaranta 70), Landon Donovan, Kerry Zavagnin (Ben Olsen 80), Josh Wolff (Nate Jaqua 67), Taylor Twellman (Brian Ching 84), Pat Noonan (Chris Klein 77) As I recall, Arena went with the 4-4-2 Diamond, with Donovan at the tip, Pat Noonan on the left, Clint Dempsey on the right and Kerry Zavagnin in the deep middle. I don't think Arena had more talent, even including Donovan. Bradley has Perkins, Goodson, Feilhaber, Rogers, Casey and Pearce with experience in competitive Euro ball (also Bedoya, albeit his is minimal). If one compared starters positionally, I'd say : Perkins over Hartman. Wynne's tied with Hejduk. Pope's tied with Goodson (or a minor advantage Goodson). Conrad is tied with Conrad. Bornstein over Dunivant. Zavagnin's tied with Beckerman. Dempsey's a lot better than Kjestan. Noonan is tied with Rogers. Donovan is slightly better than Feilhaber (Landon wasn't consistent in 2006) Cunnigham over Twellman (this match was Twellman's peak, however). Findley over or tied with Wolff. So, IMO, you'd get a very minor edge to the current squad, especially if you include the bench. But Arena's team could actually string a few decent passes together. Bob's squad? Not last night. But that's like saying, "They were better because they won". And playing significant role in 2006 wasn't exactly a badge of honor (and, besides, Ching went but didn't get into a single game, Frankie was injured, Wolff came in for a cup of coffee vs. Czechia, Olsen was an injury replacement for Reyna in the second half of the last game and the less is said about Eddie Pope's 2006 WC, the better). If you look at career MLS, European and international accomplishments, the two US squads are very evenly matched.
Interesting article on Goal.com about the USMNT's depth and the likelyhood of players going to SA: http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1679.../01/24/1760018/bradleys-bunch-assessing-depth Naturally, since there are only 23 spots, the top 23 will compromise the squad. Everybody else is on the outside looking in. For the purpose of prognosticating a proper squad, three ‘keepers, eight defenders, eight midfielders, and four forwards will be selected in the first 23. The number in parentheses represents the ranking for that player in the previous edition of Bradley’s Bunch.
These games tell us almost nothing about what will happen in South Africa, since only one player who suited up in it is even projected to start... and that is still a bit of a maybe. Bornstein and Feilhaber are neither locks for starting positions on our team. The rest of the team were a bunch of hopeful, fringe players, most with only a handful of caps, who hadn't played a competitive match in almost three months. But we should fire Bob Bradley because of this. Look last year this same time, Sasha Klesjtan was putting three past Sweden. Does that result tell us anything about Sweden, or Sasha Klesjtan???!?!!? Everyone needs to relax and realize that all Bob is doing is just trying to round out the last 2-3 spots in the team and make sure that we have a decent left back option. Mission basically accomplished. If England, Algeria, or Slovenia use this result and the game as any form of scouting they will be in for a shock. Lets also wait and see how players respond for the El Salvador match, that will tell us a lot also. Oh, yeah we were also down a man for most of the match.
Seriously. Everyone is crying about squad selection, but who was Bob supposed to play? The following players are not available because they are playing for their clubs: Torres Castillo Vidal Gomez Edu Donovan Howard Demerit Simek Pittmann Grella Johnson Whitbread Lichaj Guzan Spector Bradley Chreundolo Clark Altidore Bocanegra Adu Johnson Taylor Hill Heck even Lee Ngyuen had to report to his club. The following are injured: Dempsey Davies Onyewu Cooper Beasley Jones Tracy Zizzo The following is preparing to sign with a Premeirship side: Holden The following were getting married: Freeman That is a long list of people who are possibly on Bradley's radar who couldn't have been called up. No way Jose! Who was Bob supposed to play who would have done better? Wynne- Lets give him a look and develop some depth here. Obviously needs more time to simmer Marshall- Good player, had some decent matches. Bob needs a fourth or fifth middle defense option. Maybe he is not the guy Conrad- Vet and hero from ITaly game who might help MArshall and the other young guys settle in and learn a few things. Fourth or Fifth at best. Ok, not so much Bornstein- Apparently our best left back option. Did good. Klesjtan- Once seemed to be on the ascendency for greatness, but has since disappeared. Has tremendous skill. Lets give him a second chance. No still average. Feilhaber- A good player probably, one of the first options off the bench. Could always use a game and could help other inexperienced players with poise and skill. Beckerman- Career, hard working MLSer who showed some ability in the Gold Cup. Still way behind Bradley, Clark, Torres, Feilhaber, and Jones. Basically filler. Rogers- Possible roster player mainly for speed and left foot ability. We need depth behind Donovan. Probably someone for the future. Findley- Speedy guys who often looks promising. With Davies possibly out, he become more important, but this was only his 2nd or 3rd cap. Not sure we should expect much out of him Cunningham- MLS vet and long term fringe player. Might have something to offer. No, not really. Bob realizes he will probably have to play a 4-5-1. Que sera, sera.
The probable best case scenario starting lineup for the USA in the World Cup Altidore Dempsey Donovan Bradley Jones Holden Bornstein Bocanegra Onyewu Spector Howard A second team: Casey Davies Beasely Edu Clark Feilhaber Bocanegra Spector Demerit Cherundolo Guzan Notice that there are very few names from the January camp above. A everything goes to hell starting lineup (none of our players return from injury. Altidore Donovan Holden Beasely Bradley Clark Bornstein Bocanegra Spector Cherundolo Howard All of these lineups are tone better than anything Bob even has the chance to throw out against Honduras and El Salvador.
The probable best case scenario starting lineup for the USA in the World Cup Altidore Dempsey Donovan Bradley Jones Holden Bornstein Bocanegra Onyewu Spector Howard A second team: Casey Davies Beasely Edu Clark Feilhaber Bocanegra Spector Demerit Cherundolo Guzan Notice that there are very few names from the January camp above. A everything goes to hell starting lineup (none of our players return from injury. Altidore Donovan Holden Beasely Bradley Clark Bornstein Bocanegra Spector Cherundolo Howard All of these lineups are tone better than anything Bob even has the chance to throw out against Honduras and El Salvador.