Pre-match: US v Ecuador, Oct 10 2025

He won't as long as Musa is there..........................

Would I be surprised if Musa is sold in January? No.

...............but I have no clue what the plan is from a personnel point of view at Dallas right now. Its a mess.

 

This bottom of the roster 9 page debate over the merits of multiple guys who have only ever shown their not at the level is peak bigsoccer and I love this place and each of you for it.

The chasm between Balo and Pepi to whomever the third striker is going to be is vast and the difference amongst the candidates is at this point indistinguishable, try as you might.

This will be decided by club performance and a few brief windows, the only real hope is someone actually wins the job, rather than this continuous clown car of guys trying their best to hand the shirt to the next dude.

 

He was definitely not active and I don't think everyone would agree he played well.

You can find quite a few articles pointing out how inactive he was on defense -- his lack of activity is one reason why our press got shredded by Panama. Despite his reputation and prior play, he was straight poor on defense.

On offense, he did have that one deflected shot, that one goal brought back from an offside that wasn't him which is a bummer and ... zero other shots. None. That deflected shot was counted as a big chance missed, too.

He had 8 touches period and only 3 in the box in 68 minutes. And in the South Korea game it was 0 shots and 1 touch in the box.

It's not that he didn't score. It's that he hasn't played well for the US. He's not generating chances at all and he's not even defending well.

 

Yeah I’ve long been very pro Sargent and wanted him to keep getting opportunities but hard to justify right now absent injuries.

 

That's just the thing. During Poch's tenure, a lot of the other forward options have been out with longer-term injuries. Sargent hasn't taken advantage of the opening.

He can score as many goals as he wants for Norwich. If he can't score the USMNT, then he's not the right fit. At some point others are going to be looked at. This October window could easily be Pepi, Balogun, and Wright getting the playing time at center forward.

One of the more interesting developments is Reyna starting for Gladbach this past weekend.
Of course they got their butts handed to them 4-0 by Bremen.

If Reyna keeps starting in the Bundesliga then he is going to get another opportunity to make an impression. We heard what Pochettino said about Gio during the Nations League. About what a talent he is, but that he wasn't up to the level of the other players (which we took to mean fitness wise). Will it be in this October window? Maybe. I can see it.

Its an interesting one because since that Nations League, Poch has spent the summer building depth.

Thirdly, Musah playing for Atalanta is a great development. That guy has so many tools. He's another that wasn't involved this summer or in the September window that could easily force his way back in. He's versatile. He's strong physically. He just seems...........................so streaky. Fragile mentally? I don't know what it is. We still don't really know why he asked out of the Gold Cup. That story of him returning to Qatar and reliving the World Cup, staying in the same hotels, going to the same restaurants, etc. was really weird to me. That was like a 22 year old having a mid-life crisis. I don't know. But getting that guy back on track would be HUGE.

I think we undervalue Yunus Musah. Rewatch that World Cup game against England and their midfield of Rice and Bellingham. Musah stood toe-to-toe with them. He was a monster. Its just that we don't see THAT every time. Milan didn't see that every time. THAT version of Yunus Musah has to be in the USMNT over the likes of Berhalter and McGlynn.

I will not be surprised to see both Musah and Reyna back in October. The domestic guys will have January camp.

 

Yeah, I think it's tricky situation. When Pochettino called in the guys largely seen as the most talented for NL in March, they didn't get results. And then when he called in guys largely seen as less talented but maybe having the "right attitude" for the GC, I guess maybe they got better results but were clearly outclassed by Mexico, the only truly good team they faced. There might be a hard ceiling on what the "right attitude" guys can accomplish given their lesser talent.

I think you have to give the more talented guys who have been left out recently another look to see if they can raise the ceiling for the team, if they've been performing for their clubs. So, I'd bring guys like Reyna, Tessmann, and Cardoso back in October, if all of them keep their form at club level. And if they're still duds for the NATs, leave them out again going forward.

 

I would dispute this narrative.

The "more talented" players who weren't there at the Gold Cup were not there because of injury (Jedi, Dest, Balogun, Pepi), the CWC (McKennie, Weah, Reyna) or the players' choice (Pulisic, Musah). Perhaps someone from the CWC would have not been there anyway, but otherwise, most of these guys were actually called in!

Some of our "more talented" players WERE also there -- Adams, Richards, Tillman, and if you are so inclined, Cardoso, who also got hurt there.

If players were left behind for the wrong attitude, the guys we are talking about are Sargent, Scally, Tessman, Morris -- guys like that. Guys like Wright and Tolkin were also there!

These are not the same. This is not one big bucket.

The Gold Cup team did do better than the presumed depth chart team without many of those players, but keep in mind that the GC team could add Pulisic, Weah, McKennie, Reyna, Balogun, etc., without ever touching a guy who was actually not called for the Gold Cup.

People keep lumping a number of B tier European guys in with the actual talented core of this team. Joe Scally is a lot closer to Alex Freeman than he is Sergiño Dest in impact.

Lumping in Reyna and Tanner Tessman as you do is also kind of silly. I don't mind seeing, either, and I like Tanner Tessman, especially his long passing. But can we stop pretending that they are in the same league in terms of talent and impact?

And once you separate those -- this weird dichotomy is already resolved? There wasn't anyone in the core not in camp who wasn't dealing with club stuff or injury. Perhaps one of the core is on a shit list somewhere -- perhaps that's even Reyna -- but a guy like Pulisic, who openly turned down an important summer camp, is already back.

As for a hard ceiling; it seems to me there's a pretty hard ceiling on what guys like Sargent and Scally can accomplish as well.

 

It's important to note, most of the board was really unhappy w/his work rate in that March Window, admittedly the entire team pretty much sucked, not just him, but then he was not called up for "performance based reasons" according to Poch. The call up in September, to me, was a last handout offered based on his strong August with club. But he came back, apparently even worse (I missed chunks of the first half). The one thing I'd note with regards to Sargent's March window is that if his goal hadn't been ruled offsides, or if his shot hadn't inexplicably spun away and pinged off the post, these story lines change a good bit, he gets called in for the summer, maybe, and he gets more goals in the Gold Cup. So maybe it's good that it didn't get in since September underlined the fit issues, and the lack of compatibility. For the record, my quibble with rgli, comes down to the view that:
#1 Sargent's run with the team has not been nearly as large as it seems in peoples minds. He was largely not called up at all during the WCQ run, out of every window save Window 1, and not called in for the Summer '22 window. He also was largely not called up at all post WC '22 until late '24. So the call ups are thin.

#2 He has not gotten the gimme game's that strikers love to get some rhythm and momentum via the Gold Cup, and patsy friendlies. That might have helped, honestly, it would have. Getting this B/C Gold Cup this past summer and a group stage against tackling dummies? Knock a couple of goals in, get that confidence? It absolutely matters. Agyemang has gotten that, Wright has gotten it, Downs got some subs, Ferreira's WC ticket was earned entirely on such call ups etc. That would make a difference. Same w/getting call ups with a functional midfield that can provide service.

However, I come to the same conclusion. It is enough already. I was and am willing to give Tillman more room, more rope because I've seen him kill it with Rangers, earning them a CL ticket, I've seen him do it with PSV, and play well and improve over time in CL. He opens things up in the Bundesliga etc with a goal too. Tillman keeps growing as you up the challenges, so my invites keep getting handed out. With Sargent, it's more lateral moves. The combo of failing to produce demonstrable attacking results against meh's in Fall '24, Panama in NL in '25, and now in this window? I'm just out. We can't keep handing out minutes to a guy like we did with Agyemang in the Gold Cup, whose doing ---- all with it. We've got to integrate the best options. Add in that Sargent didn't take on the challenge of the Bundesliga like Tillman did, whatever the reason, was the second to last nail for me. I get that piling in goals he knew he would with Norwich may be more attractive than struggling to find his form for a middling Wolfsburg side, but he has to challenge himself, and moving to Wolfsburg might have helped bring more out of him so that he could bring it actually with the national team. He didn't, he took the easy road, and failed to leave any imprint at all a week ago. That's a wrap, period, barring injury. It's too late.

FTR, I think he could be useful with this group, but I also think there is literally no chance whatsoever that I see him as a striker on the level of Pepi or Balo, so he isn't even a top 2 striker in the pool anyway. Have Agyemang, Downs, and Wright fight it out the next 8 months or so, and we'll see who wins striker #3. Open the door to Sargent ONLY if we have multiple injuries at striker. That's it. Moving on.

 

I don't really think they got the results in this Summer either. If Poch and his crew actually understand how to evaluate video, evidence, all that.....The summer was freaking ugly.

Got Beaten by the Turks.

Got Curb Stomped by the Swiss

Beat up on tackling dummies in the group stage.

Struggled mightily against a horrific Costa Rica side and needed PK's to beat them.

Struggled mightily and were outplayed by freaking Guatemala.

Loss to crappy El Tri (admittedly while El Tri was better, we were absolutely robbed of a clear penalty).

To me, the Gold Cup was mostly uninspired other than the Group Stage, where we've what, lost 1 game total EVER? So to me. I think losing to Panama in a game we largely totally controlled and were the better side, is not nearly as bad as getting curb stomped in friendlies, and getting embarrassing performances in the knockouts against a pile of crap sides.


I don't know what he should have taken out of that window other than that the first teamers were clearly self-satisfied jack ---es, and that the team itself looked pretty uninspiring without them too. What do you do with that? Well, we'll see in October, last week it appeared he wanted to look under even more rocks (which underlines my view, that when they watched the summer window tape, they were uninspired too).

 

I don't think any of this is particularly about finishing. Across two starts in March and September, he had one shot. One. Two, if you give him the offside one.

Pair that with poor pressing and a questionable work rate and I don't really need to go finishing and sample size to determine who my strikers are.

I don't know why he's not defending, but after having the whole team castigated in March, I find the performance in September baffling.

But the lack of shot creation? I find that to be fairly consistent with Sargent's general play at this level. Finishing is small sample size because you might just get a few chances a game. But there's a lot more chances every game to generate some kind of separation from the defense. I'm not seeing any of that, and when I watch him at club, I also don't see anything that makes me think he can reliably do that at the international level right now.

 

Agreed. He wasn't called in for the 2 summer friendlies nor the GC. He's been tearing it up in the early season in the Championship, so he had to feel confident. Then, he comes in, vs SK, and basically jogs around for 60+ minutes. Yes, SK was the better team, but as a lone CF, you must work hard to at least get open and/or create space with lots of movement. Very disappointing.

 

Part of why SK was the better team was that Sargent wasn't creating anything. He wasn't able to even create space for Pulisic to do something.

And then on defense ... he wasn't even forcing turnovers. That's a big part of his game for Norwich and we know we want to do it ... just kind of odd.

 

anyone watching CL games Juve & Dortmund? our boy is playing right wing back.

 

Did McKennie play wingback? I think @Paul Berry said in another thread that he was shown as the right CB--which would be an interesting wrinkle for the USMNT perhaps!

 

ESPN and my eyes had him at a RWB/RM position that he played last Serie A game but on the left side. So nothing really centrally so far.

 

Ecuador's bad FIFA Ranking its entirely due to their bad results in Copas America. I think their only win in the last 3 editions was against Jamaica, even though the 2021 edition featured 5 teams groups.

Continental cups performance is worth more in the FIFA Rankings than World Cup Qualifiers.

They should be in Pot 2 of the World Cup considering that Italy is likely to miss direct qualifying at least. If they end up in Pot 3, Ecuador along Norway will be the strongest teams of the Pot.

 

ENORMOUS POST ALERT (Forgive me):

I've been thinking about this topic for a few weeks, so after losing half of this post last week, I decided to rewrite it. The premise is: who do we think are the crazier out of left field players from Poch '25 that will called into this coming October Window? Who do you guys think will be called in that you never would have imagined 9 months ago? I get that people will disagree over whom represents crazy out of left field calls, in my post here anyway, I'll note where it's an out of left field guy that I'm actually happy with, and I'll note guys I'm not happy with.

GK: Jonathan Klinsmann.
W/Turners implosion over the past two years, I've been open to largely anyone other than probably Steffen and Horvath, who've accumulated an enormous sample size of suck since 2019 (Steffen) and certainly 2021 or 2022 (Horvath)....so opening the door to Schulte, Freese, Celentano and other GK's near the top of the PSxG per 90 stats for MLS makes sense, same with creaking a door open with Steffen in his best form in 7 years, even if I think it's small sample size madness, or prospects like Kochen, Eyestone, and the German dude whose name I forget (not Klinsmann). No surprises here save the Klinsmann selection which was and is ludicrous.

Defense:
Arf
Alex Freeman
Tristan Blackmon
Nathan Harriel
Noahkai Banks

Thoughts: He's located some interesting depth, but who among these players really fits as a legit XI or a long term depth piece+? For me, it's Freeman, and Banks, and that's it. Both are speculative prospects with varying degrees of long term possible value, but for me, Harriel is a wait and see, and probably wait and ignore, Blackmon is one of innumerable meh CB's we've got piled together, and for me, I get the attraction of Arf, but I just don't think he's good enough. At LB he can't defend, at LWB Paredes is signifcantly better, period (if injured) and at LWF we have a pile of options of interest that could play LWF or LWB in a pinch. I don't see the attraction of a guy who isn't international quality (for the caliber of opponents we'll have at the WC) when he can't play defense, and his attacking skills will not play against the bulk of the teams were likely to draw in the group stage, and/or the knockouts (yes he looked adequate against absolutely pants level sides this past summer, and a nice moment against backups in Japan, but I've seen what, 700 minutes of sample size, and he hasn't looked up to it for 95% of those minutes).

What I think Happens in October: I think he's calling in Arf, and Freeman. I'm curious how he handles Banks, with Banks not called into the U20 squad, is that because Poch wanted him to be available for the October friendlies, or was it because of the traditional "you've graduated" rule that applied to nearly everyone save Tim Weah in 2019 (who specifically asked on for the U20 WC). I lean towards the latter. Freeman and Arf going. Freeman just has a real high ceiling, and I think Poch is rolling the dice on him being close to ready to go after another 1500 minutes and 15+ games at the club level by next June.

Midfield:
Seb Berhalter
LDLT
Sawadziki

Thoughts: I don't think any of these 3 guys have any business being called up, period. I get why people would quibble with Seb. The set pieces range from solid, to damn nice, and compared to Pulisic, whose set pieces are total --- 90% of the time, and adequate the other 10%, it's night and day, but we have other options that can be better than 90% straight trash AND not be a matador on defense at best and a total liability in the attack against mostly garbage sides nowhere close to the level we'll see in June. LDLT was past it 3 club seasons ago. Luckily and unluckily for him, he peaked just in time for WC '22 in the Netherlands (and unfortunately got injured before the WC), but since then he's ranged from a nonentity in Spain, to below league average in MLS. That is NOWHERE remotely near good enough for the national team. He's a poor man's Musah who's vastly inferior to Musah in terms of fitness and pace, athleticism, ball security when he's a ball carrier and defending. He's not close to good enough. It was nice to see him suddenly appear on the stage four years ago after disappearing for nearly half a decade post '17 U20 WC, but he's just not good enough AND IT SHOULD BE OBVIOUS. We'd have to sustain injuries to McKennie, Tillman, Musah, Reyna, Tessmann, Sands, Morris and Busio at bare minimum to justify his presence. It's utterly asinine he got another call after the summer underlined that reality.

Sawawhatever almost seemed like a joke, a way to troll a portion of the chicken little fan base like me. Just absurd.

What I think happens in November: I think Seb is a lock, and LDLT is 50/50 which is clinically insane. If just one is called in (which I would rate the odds at: Both 40% 1 of the 2 50% and neither 10%)

Forwards:
Quinn Sullivan

Thoughts: He's a prospect who started breaking out after being a second tier attacker behind Luna, Paxten, and Cowell for the '23 U20 WC team that qualified us for the Olympics. Sullivan was a good young player, but not at their level. Over the past 3 years since I first saw them all, it's been a pleasant surprise to see Sullivan grow from a player I about 90% wrote off as: 1990's era depth guy, or more specifically, a guy that would sit around 7th or 8th in my list of WF's circa 2023-2026, not viable for the USMNT, but a guy who represents depth if we get slammed, and would need to grow A LOT, to be relevant in the '30 cycle. He's been much better than I expected. He's now at 60 matches and 4250 minutes in his age 20 and 21 season combined, with 22 goal contributions, and 7 goals scored at the MLS league level. That's not insane or anything (Luna's got 27 goal contributions and 17 goals scores, right around 20% better overall), but it's way more than I was ever expecting for his age 20 and 21 seasons combined (I probably would have guessed at 4-6 goals, and about 12-15 goal contributions, so he's nearly doubled my expectations). For me, he's a nice depth piece for the depth chart going into the '30 cycle when he probably slides in between 5th-7th at WF, and tries to fight off megastud prospects like Mathis Albert who should break through by '27 or '28 at the latest.

What I expect in October: I don't think any of us see him getting called up.


Strikers:
Brian White
Patrick Agyemang
Damion Downs

Thoughts: I'm probably not being fair to White, but I don't see it at all. If he was good enough, he would have broken through this past decade, but he didn't lay down a marker as a teen, U20, or even U23, at the league level he's never drawn call up interest, to me he was called up because we had injuries at striker the past year and somebody had to be called up which is fine. I just don't think he's international quality period, otoh, I have never been open to him to begin with, and really paid any attention, it's at least partially prejudice with a guy who never did anything in his club career to grab my notice. He got the summer window, essentially 6 weeks to impress Poch and earned next to zero minutes. Agyemang burst on the scene last winter, and looked like Dike Part II, a physical handful with a lethal cannon shot, and more pace than Dike. I was 100% for his inclusion in the summer window (along with Downs and Sargent and at the expense of White), but with that window, like White, he did ---- all. I've argued he was basically used as a raquetball wall to bounce passes off to the runs of Tillman and Luna, I guess you can say that's a strategy, but other than Arf's goal (where Agyemang won a ball it seemed completely physically impossible to win) I didn't see ANYTHING worth a call up again for the next 15 months, period. I immediately put him behind Balo, Pepi, Sargent, and Downs on my depth chart, at 5, and not even really there, I'd prefer Vasquez's corpse, and Ferreira's injury riddled form to that. The only question I have is, "how much of that horrific play was on his groin," which he got surgery on later? I tend to doubt it was about that because if the groin was that bad, he would have sat for Downs or White and he didn't.

Downs I'm of two minds about. On the one hand, like Sargent, he's come close repeatedly but no goals yet. I love his runs, he seems to know EXACTLY how to provide danger, as a sub, and has essentially provided at least one goal scoring opportunity with his decision making and runs in literally every single usually short sub appearance. Still, no goals. And its important to note, while he got some nice goals in a relegation battle in the Bundesliga, and was productive in Bundesliga 2, enough to get a 9.5 million dollar transfer to Southampton, but it was still not an awe inspiring season (I think it was around 17 goal contributions in all formats and 11 goals), just a solid one.

What I think happens in October: I think Downs has a legit shot at getting a call up, Agyemang and White have done nothing since March to earn anything, and Agyemang's surgery has acted as a governor on his ability to generate the goal scoring #'s to swing Poch's head his way. So I imagine October is Balo, Pepi and Downs.


Special Inclusion:
Jack McGlynn
Luna

Thoughts: Luna has won over call ups through October I think based on his form and performance in the January, March and Summer windows. An uneven at best September call up may hurt his case a touch, but I imagine Poch is gonna look at that, and view it at least in part as a product of Tillman's absence, the South Korea game getting away from them etc. I'm all for that. My only concern for Luna right now, is that his play tailed off post summer call up (something we've seen over the years, however, is this very thing happening with MLS guys, essentially tailing off after leaving their club team for 6 weeks to play in that tournament and taking quite a while to get rebooted at the club level) but it is high time he start scoring goals and grabbing assists again. He was grabbing a goal contribution at more than an every other game rate pre Gold Cup, since the Gold Cup he has 1 goal contribution in 7 starts, happily it was last week, so hopefully that's a sign of his engine jump starting and running again.

As for McGlynn, My thoughts are similar to those I have with Arf, and Seb, it's just McGlynn has playable skills in the run of play (a lethal left foot from distance, and beautiful through balls with his left foot), the problem is, like Seb, he's a total matador on defense, and unlike Seb part of the problem is athleticism and pace, McGlynn is simply not a physically robust, energetic, pacey, difficult to defend, or break through attacker, he's a luxury player, like 2019 Alex Mendez, with a fabulous cannon shot, and one footed game, who can't defend a lick, and is too damn slow in the open field to be a weapon or on the sidelines to break by anyone save through predictable cuts with his on foot. Like with Seb, I'd love to be able to call in McGlynn, for those plusses he has, because like Seb, what McGlynn can do, is 10/10 elite (set pieces, free kicks, open field lethal blasts, through balls with his vision), but what he can't do: athletically play soccer at the modern international level, makes him an IMMENSE LUXURY. He simply can't go. The problem is, he's now registered 2 "HOLY ----!" moments showcasing his superlative skill he does have, and vividness bias is liable to grab a coaches attention, especially when they are on the hot seat, and McGlynn had his thrilling moments after horror show USMNT performances (opening the goal scoring of the summer window with a mega blast against Turkey, nearly scoring from distance via a mega blast against Japan after the South Korea horror show), so is he called in again? Seems like Poch really likes both of them.

What I expect in October:
I expect Luna to get called up, I think McGlynn could get a call up if certain options are hurt (Weah, Zendejas, Pulisic or Luna).

 

because pat has a history of doing

My post gave the scenario as the third striker option only utilized to poach a goal if we are behind or tied late in the match. Sargent is a good poacher. Pepi and Balogun are good at what you described and your expectations of a striker. We don’t need three of those. We need players who are suited to help in scenarios after we figure out who the regulars are. Deep down the depth chart. Maybe players 24-26. Players like Berhalter and McGlynn for their set piece abilities and Sargent for his knack for pressing and poaching abilities.

 

Yes, but...

I don't see any real justification for this statement, unless you mean something I don't by poacher. Sargent isn't a poacher in any way for the US -- he's not popping up in the box and finding a goal.

He's also not that for Norwich. The majority of his goals are transition and pressing driven.

Furthermore, I'd argue the US doesn't really create those kind of chances anyway. If we're chasing a goal, there's a decent chance we're facing a team where we're not getting a lot of chances.

I don't think Agyemang is anything Pepi or Balogun. Wright is; or at least he scores that way. Pat's not great, but neither of those guys can muscle off a big CB and turn once they have the ball. Pat as a 3rd striker is basically a lottery ticket -- you hope he can make something out of nothing.

And I get that's not great, but it's something. Whereas I don't see what Sargent is supposedly going to do in that situation.

 

banks wasnt released for the u20 wc, so theres no reason he cant be involved.

 

He's played in two matches.

74 minutes and 10 minutes. That's a pretty low bar you have set. That's not enough for me. But they do have two more matches before the window so I am waiting to see how those go.

 

Only one match Frankfurt before the roster drops to evaluate a call up and he looking like a sub at best based on his injury status., the last match on 10/5 Freiburg will be after the roster is released.

1 start and two sub appearances before the roster drops

 

Gio's talent level is such that at pretty much any level of minutes, you can justify bringing him in. I know Poch has made a lot of talk about having to play, but his call ups don't really reflect that, and Reyna is playing at some level.

However, the reality is that Poch is not a coach who will design a tactic to accommodate a player who doesn't want to work on defense, and frankly, he shouldn't. Everyone who is on the wagon of "he's really good at offense, who cares if he doesn't defend" ... we can argue the merit but Pochettino is not that kind of coach either way. He bent for Leo Messi but he's not going to bend for Gio Reyna -- not when there's a larger cultural issue AND where he has other options he likes.

So I think that's what it comes down to: does Poch think Gio will do the work, and will Gio actually do the work if Poch thinks he does.

I doubt the exact number of minutes at Gladbach matters all that much.

 

Well Gio is got a thigh issue now so don't see any way he gets called in for the next window. If he doesn't get back real soon and put in some strong minutes before the November window his chances just about tanked.