By Dan Loney on Aug 18, 2017 at 3:42 PM
  1. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    #1 Dan Loney, Aug 18, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017

    US Soccer Hall of Fame: Super Scurry

    By Dan Loney on Aug 18, 2017 at 3:42 PM
    We all need a Dr. Joe Machnik in our lives. “The minivan had not yet begun its turn into the parking space from the opposite side. Therefore, the spot should go to the Chevy Malibu.” Or, “The will of the majority does not cancel out the civil rights of any minority or individual.” Or, “She doesn’t owe you anything just because you took her to Olive Garden.”

    And finally, Briana Scurry made it in to the US Soccer Hall of Fame. She didn’t make it in by very much – the lowest non-runoff percentage in the modern voting era, thanks for asking – but she’ll have the party almost all to herself. Scurry will break ground as the first female goalkeeper in the Hall – which will probably lead to loud arguments in bars across the country over whether she was better than Mary Harvey.

    I hope Scurry’s induction helps extinguish the myth that literally anybody could have played behind the 90’s US women’s national team. Not ANYBODY could have. There wasn’t much opposition back then, but what there was, was really damned good. In 1999, Scurry shut out Sun Wen and the Steel Roses. That’s the kind of accomplishment that gets one onto plaques.

    Okay, Kristine Lilly helped.

    ….and fine, Scurry was off her line. It’s been nearly twenty years, we can all admit this now, Gao Hong jumped off her line a time or two as well. For penalty kicks, keepers should be chained to their line, because, penalty. It’s a punishment for a foul. For penalty kick shootouts, where no one is being punished except the dignity of the game? Cheat, baby, cheat. Scurry did nothing wrong. She’s a damn American hero.

    [EDITED FOR EXTREME FRUSTRATING STUPIDITY - I CAN NEVER GET THE ELIGBILITY YEARS RIGHT, ROGER ALWAYS CORRECTS ME, HE DID IT AGAIN IN THE COMMENTS. I SUCK.]

    And…I feel I should mention this, while I’m standing in front of a wildfire with an empty tank of gasoline and an “I’m Hot for Arson!” T-shirt. I’m shocked David Beckham didn’t get in. I honestly thought that someone would have pulled strings to make sure he would, even if the electorate held strong.

    And I thought the electorate would fold like this was the Hall of Fame of Origami. The Scurry-skeptical, Milbrett-denying, xenophobes who apparently think DC United’s early success was down John Harkes carrying the team looked at the qualifications and said, “Not THIS shiny object, pal.” Or words to that effect.

    I honestly did not believe that the Hall would be able to resist Beckham’s celebrity. But the voters said no, and the powers that be in Frisco and Chicago respected that decision. I can only think one of three things happened.

    First option. Both voters and administrators have decided that integrity is going to be more valuable in the long term than celebrity. The fame in the Hall of Fame is conferred, not acknowledged. And it is meant to be perpetual, not ephemeral. What will our children see in a Hall that was compromised before it was even built?

    And so on and so forth with that fairytale lollipop Disneyland crap. US soccer turning down a payday, huh. Not by the ghost of Freddy Adu, they don’t. What’s REALLY going on here?

    Well, option two is that the place doesn’t actually open until towards the end of 2018. So, well, why not open it up with someone big? Especially not that Landon has postponed his coronation? Yeah, Abby Wambach is still pretty darn famous, even though she lost all of her endorsements after taking controlled substances as a private citizen. But her induction speech is going to be an incitement to the violent overthrow and murder of the US Soccer Federation, and really, is that the headline we want? Assuming David Beckham can be persuaded to ignore the indignity of not being a first-ballot consensus pick like a mere Brian McBride, of course, but when has Beckham ever been about putting his own brand first?

    The answer is obvious. The reason the fix wasn’t in is because the fix IS in, just delayed.

    There’s only one other possible explanation. The Hall of Fame electorate doesn’t just hate foreigners. They REALLY hate foreigners.

    _________________

    So there will be a challenger to the US/Canada/Mexico World Cup bid for 2026. And it’s Morocco. Morocco! Can you imagine? That would be…

    That would be okay. Morocco has been bidding on this damned thing since before Satan had a beard. Unlike certain other hosts, they’re an actual country, not a boardroom of oil executives playing at being Enrico Dandolo. They have a Freedom in the World rating of “Partly Free,” unless you count Western Sahara. That’s still better than the next two hosts are doing right now, and really, what’s our rating going to be in 2026? Yeah, thought so.

    And I assume the stadiums are actually going to be used if built. Looking at you, Amazonia. Looking at you, South Africa. A North African World Cup would also provide a nice little boost to the local economy (er, local being millions of square miles). I would hope that Mohammed VI (or whoever is reigning) won’t enslave too many people to build stadiums. I’ll settle for fewer than Qatar, not as many as the US/Canada/Mexico bid would.

    On the other hand, the damned thing is going to be 48 countries strong in 2026. There’s a reason continents are bidding for the World Cup these days. Can you imagine if a tiny state were to be picked over a superpower?

    Yeah, it’ll probably be hot in the neighborhood in the summer. We have a bid that will have summer afternoon games in Florida, Texas, and literally Mexico. Since Morocco is in Greenwich Football Time, they can kick off games in the evening. Remember the weather for the two Rose Bowl World Cups? That was Europe’s fault. (Well, not the 1999 World Cup, that was thinking women’s soccer wouldn’t get decent Sunday night viewing numbers. Same underlying motivation – TV ratings.)

    Morocco would be a tolerable substitute for the US. It would be the third consecutive World Cup where LGBT rights are illegal, though.

    Look, if you weren’t into serious moral compromises, why are you even watching World Cup soccer to begin with?
    ____________________

    I didn't get tickets to the FC Cincinnati US Open Cup game, because this city has gone FC crazy. So I missed the biggest sellout since Lou Reed did Honda commercials. I hope you got a chance to watch the game, wherever you were - even on my phone that game was crazy fun. I think this Bradley Wright-Phillips kid has a future.

    I can tell you that no one in the media market has the slightest doubt that the expansion announcement will be Cincinnati +1. I have heard horrible rumors from the outside world that Cincinnati can be considered somewhat provincial and out of touch.

    So maybe I'm drinking the Hudepohl. But yeah, the expansion announcement should be Cincinnati +1. And if someone would simply tell Carl Lindner to build his own damn stadium and watch it fill up with money year after year instead of trying to play Third on a Match with the Hamilton County public teat...but perhaps my view is somewhat jaundiced. If I didn't want to pay my taxes to the Cincinnati Bengals, I probably could have moved somewhere else.
     
    The Franchise repped this.
?

What would a foreign player have to do to be inducted into the US Soccer Hall of Fame anymore?

  1. Score 50 goals in an MLS season

    2 vote(s)
    14.3%
  2. Score 200 MLS career goals

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Score 200 goals in an MLS season

    6 vote(s)
    42.9%
  4. Don't blame me, I voted for Pat Onstad

    6 vote(s)
    42.9%

Comments

Discussion in 'Articles' started by Dan Loney, Aug 18, 2017.

    1. Roger Allaway

      Roger Allaway Member+

      Apr 22, 2009
      Warminster, Pa.
      Club:
      Philadelphia Union
      Nat'l Team:
      United States
      #2 Roger Allaway, Aug 18, 2017
      Last edited: Aug 18, 2017

      US Soccer Hall of Fame: Super Scurry

      By Dan Loney on Aug 18, 2017 at 3:42 PM
      Abby Wambach isn't getting in in 2018. She doesn't become eligible until 2019. However, Brad Friedel does become eligible in 2018. Also, Shannon Boxx doesn't become eligible until 2019.
       
      barroldinho, Dan Loney and kenntomasch repped this.
    2. kenntomasch

      kenntomasch Member+

      Sep 2, 1999
      Out West
      Club:
      FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      US Soccer Hall of Fame: Super Scurry

      By Dan Loney on Aug 18, 2017 at 3:42 PM
      And if there were a conspiracy to postpone Beckham's induction, wouldn't you think they would have had to tell some voters about it?

      Or is that why we only had 79 ballots returned this year?
       
    3. Beau Dure

      Beau Dure Member+

      May 31, 2000
      Vienna, VA

      US Soccer Hall of Fame: Super Scurry

      By Dan Loney on Aug 18, 2017 at 3:42 PM
      Whoa -- really?

      Roger, can we investigate this at some point? Have a lot of voters just checked out?
       
      AndyMead repped this.
    4. kenntomasch

      kenntomasch Member+

      Sep 2, 1999
      Out West
      Club:
      FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      US Soccer Hall of Fame: Super Scurry

      By Dan Loney on Aug 18, 2017 at 3:42 PM
      Doing the math, the percentages all line up to 79 responses.

      That's not the lowest in the modern era (2004 was) but it's uncommonly low. Usually 100-115.
       
    5. Roger Allaway

      Roger Allaway Member+

      Apr 22, 2009
      Warminster, Pa.
      Club:
      Philadelphia Union
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      US Soccer Hall of Fame: Super Scurry

      By Dan Loney on Aug 18, 2017 at 3:42 PM
      I was told a few years ago that getting some people to vote is like pulling teeth. And one voter has told me that he no longer trusts his memory and thinks he probably won't vote next year (I suspect that there may be others who had already made decisions like that).

      My guess is that factors like that are the reason for the low vote total.
       
    6. kenntomasch

      kenntomasch Member+

      Sep 2, 1999
      Out West
      Club:
      FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      US Soccer Hall of Fame: Super Scurry

      By Dan Loney on Aug 18, 2017 at 3:42 PM
      Then we need some new voters.

      I mean, there are qualified people out there who I know don't get a vote.

      I'll ask the hall's new executive director about it. I have an interview coming up with him.
       
    7. Dan Loney

      Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

      Mar 10, 2000
      Cincilluminati
      Club:
      Los Angeles Sol
      Nat'l Team:
      Philippines

      US Soccer Hall of Fame: Super Scurry

      By Dan Loney on Aug 18, 2017 at 3:42 PM
      *throws up hands in despair*
       
      AndyMead repped this.
    8. AndyMead

      AndyMead Homo Sapien

      Nov 2, 1999
      Seat 12A
      Club:
      Sporting Kansas City

      US Soccer Hall of Fame: Super Scurry

      By Dan Loney on Aug 18, 2017 at 3:42 PM
      At this point, 11 years since the ECG and (ThreeSixOne) went on hiatus, I figure I continue to get a ballot primarily because I actually vote every year.
       
      russ repped this.
    9. nicklaino

      nicklaino Member+

      Feb 14, 2012
      Brooklyn, NY
      Club:
      Manchester United FC

      US Soccer Hall of Fame: Super Scurry

      By Dan Loney on Aug 18, 2017 at 3:42 PM
      There was a time when no official would call a player for going off his line early. But that has changed now. The Argentine keeper I remember who did it very blatantly was on the last World Cup team that Maradona played on must have been in 1990 Sergio Goycochea.
       
    10. kenntomasch

      kenntomasch Member+

      Sep 2, 1999
      Out West
      Club:
      FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      US Soccer Hall of Fame: Super Scurry

      By Dan Loney on Aug 18, 2017 at 3:42 PM
      You gotta admit...there are worse reasons.
       
      russ and AndyMead repped this.
    11. russ

      russ Member+

      Feb 26, 1999
      Canton,NY
      Club:
      Liverpool FC
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      US Soccer Hall of Fame: Super Scurry

      By Dan Loney on Aug 18, 2017 at 3:42 PM
      Review the post histories of Big Soccer posters.

      Select those most knowledgeable about US soccer to be Internet HOF voters.

      ????

      Profit!
       
    12. Beau Dure

      Beau Dure Member+

      May 31, 2000
      Vienna, VA

      US Soccer Hall of Fame: Super Scurry

      By Dan Loney on Aug 18, 2017 at 3:42 PM
      I have no objection to people who decide they're no longer able to make a good decision. I've bowed out of many postseason award votes for that reason.

      But some people are clearly turning in blank ballots or joke ballots, and I'd be really curious to know who they are.

      Everyone who talks in public about the ballot seems reasonable. We're all voting for at least five people a year. We're not the ones leaving out Scurry, Earnie Stewart, etc. So who is?
       
    13. AndyMead

      AndyMead Homo Sapien

      Nov 2, 1999
      Seat 12A
      Club:
      Sporting Kansas City

      US Soccer Hall of Fame: Super Scurry

      By Dan Loney on Aug 18, 2017 at 3:42 PM
      Back in Oneonta, I got called in to attend a few non-public red jacket events. As I recall, all living Hall of Famers get a player ballot. I had a couple of them indicate that they would never vote for anyone that doesn't have an exemplary USNT history. I also got the filling there were definitely some gender specific voters. Not necessarily out of malice or sexism, but out of not wanting to vote on something they didn't really care about or follow.

      Like you, I stopped voting for MLS end of season awards years ago - because I just can't keep up. With 10-12 teams, you could do that without being a full-time MLS media member. At 22 teams, I don't think that's possible. I follow the league closer than most, and - as Ted and friends like to point out - I actually draw the occasional check from MLS. The All-Star game involved me getting familiar with a couple of All-Stars I had never really heard of.
       
    14. (They call him) RMc

      Jun 1, 2013
      Club:
      Celtic FC

      US Soccer Hall of Fame: Super Scurry

      By Dan Loney on Aug 18, 2017 at 3:42 PM
      And finally, Briana Scurry made it in to the US Soccer Hall of Fame.

      It's a well-known fact that anybody who runs through the streets wearing nothing but a gold medal automatically qualifies for the Soccer Hall of Fame, even if they don't play soccer.
       
      Dan Loney, Beau Dure and AndyMead repped this.
    15. barroldinho

      barroldinho Member+

      Man Utd and LA Galaxy
      England
      Aug 13, 2007
      US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
      Club:
      Manchester United FC
      Nat'l Team:
      England

      US Soccer Hall of Fame: Super Scurry

      By Dan Loney on Aug 18, 2017 at 3:42 PM
      Does anyone have a gold medal I could borrow?
       
    16. Beau Dure

      Beau Dure Member+

      May 31, 2000
      Vienna, VA

      US Soccer Hall of Fame: Super Scurry

      By Dan Loney on Aug 18, 2017 at 3:42 PM
      Scurry brought hers to a presentation I saw a couple of years ago. First time I've ever held one.
       
      barroldinho repped this.
    17. kenntomasch

      kenntomasch Member+

      Sep 2, 1999
      Out West
      Club:
      FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      US Soccer Hall of Fame: Super Scurry

      By Dan Loney on Aug 18, 2017 at 3:42 PM
      There were, by my count, 295 Hall of Famers before this class. I believe Mooch and Al Trost are the only ones from the last 10 years or so who are deceased. I'm going to guess maybe 100, 125 are still alive? Is that a high number? Maybe. Maybe it's less than that, I'm not going to go through and check.

      Then you have

      1) All past and present full Men's and Women's National Team coaches. This would be Klinsi, Bradley, Arena, Sampson, Bora, Kowalski, Gansler, Osiander, Schellscheidt, Miller, Wosniak, Kehoe, Jago, Ellis, Sermanni, Sundhage, Greg Ryan, Heinrichs, Gregg and Dorrance. Did I miss anyone? Those folks are all still with us as far as I know. (Not sure on Wosniak, who only coached two games.) That's 20.

      2) All active MLS and NWSL head coaches with a minimum of four years as a professional head coach at the highest level in the United States. This would mean anyone out of the 22 current MLS coaches who have been in the league four full seasons. Seems like Vermes, Olsen, Heaps, Porter, Robinson, Pareja, Berhalter, Kreis and Schmid. Thats nine. In the NWSL that should be Gabarra, Harvey, Parsons, Riley, Andonovski and Dames for six more. That's 15.

      3) MLS and NWSL Commissioner/Executive Director and select MLS and NWSL management representatives. Garber had a vote before he got in the Hall himself. Amanda Duffy. We have no idea how many "select MLS and NWSL management representatives" they tabbed, but call it 12-15 between the two?

      4) U.S. Soccer Federation President and Secretary General. That's two

      5) Designated media members. I have no idea how many there are. Surely it's fewer than 50, right? I'm told there are only a couple of people considered "historians" in this pool. There are others who I can think of off the top of my head who would be qualified to get a vote.

      So you're talking about a couple hundred in the voting pool. If we're getting voter turnout of less than 50 percent, that seems low. (To be fair, other years we had more than 100, so I don't know what the dynamic is.)

      Seems like we need more, but I don't know where we're going to get a lot more. It seems like there aren't a lot of media members who have been covering the sport for more than a handful of years. I know French has a vote and Schoen and Goff (though he doesn't use it because of ethics at the WaPo) and Dan and Andy and me. I certainly would not think the garden-variety bloggers and podcast hosts (some well-intentioned) who have sprung up in the cottage industry over the last few years have the historical knowledge to cast reasonable votes, but if the old-timers aren't voting on recent players, I'm not 100% sure we'd be doing a lot of damage there anyway.

      It does seem as though the consensus of the electorate is that a player has to excel for club and country (and normally a club in this country) to be garner enough votes to get over the threshold. I'm not as hard-core against that as some are, because it seems to me we have a unique thing in our sport. Baseball players will (occasionally) play for their country, but you're not going to base someone's worthiness for Cooperstown on what he did in the World Baseball Classic against Italy. Hockey players play for their country (in the Olympics and World Cups when they are held), but for most non-Canadians, they're just sidelines to their NHL gigs. Basketball players are mercenaries when it comes to the international game, too, and have been since 1992. And there is no such dynamic in American football.

      (The women's game adds a wrinkle that is not as meaningful in other sports, too (though WNBA players play in the Olympics). I think we can all agree Mia Hamm and Michelle Akers belong in the Hall of Fame. But there does seem like there might be a bit of a gender bias when it comes to that next level down of women's player. Maybe there aren't enough women in the electorate, I don't know. Surely there aren't as many women broadcasting, coaching or covering the sport and, obviously, not as many women in the Hall itself.)

      If the club and country things make up the de facto rules, then so be it. I wouldn't necessarily want to see every Tom, Dick and Jeff Cunningham who racks up a lot of goals in the domestic league get in, either. And an MLS-only Hall of Fame would devalue both.
       
    18. Beau Dure

      Beau Dure Member+

      May 31, 2000
      Vienna, VA

      US Soccer Hall of Fame: Super Scurry

      By Dan Loney on Aug 18, 2017 at 3:42 PM
      I was at USA TODAY when they started voting this way, and I was given a ballot. I'm pretty sure I've voted each year.

      It is indeed tricky to come up with media voters. Not many "soccer writers" around at what's left of the mainstream media, and it's tough to tell who should get a ballot out of the various blogs and independent sites. There's a pretty big WoSo contingent now -- some of them are up to speed on MLS and the men's team, some of them wouldn't know Landon Donovan from Kasey Keller.
       
    19. kenntomasch

      kenntomasch Member+

      Sep 2, 1999
      Out West
      Club:
      FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      US Soccer Hall of Fame: Super Scurry

      By Dan Loney on Aug 18, 2017 at 3:42 PM
      To be fair, Landon is sometimes in disguise.

      landon.jpg
       
    20. AndyMead

      AndyMead Homo Sapien

      Nov 2, 1999
      Seat 12A
      Club:
      Sporting Kansas City

      US Soccer Hall of Fame: Super Scurry

      By Dan Loney on Aug 18, 2017 at 3:42 PM
      It's not a new problem. When they started the current system, there were still some mid-80s/early-90s players who had played outdoors or for the lost era of the MNT, but primarily had played indoor soccer filtering through the ballot. I know Casey (Nogueira) Lloyd extremely well, but I am all but unfamiliar with her father Victor except that his name appeared on my first few Hall of Fame ballots.

      With the rapid expansion of MLS and coverage in soccer in general, it is a problem identifying new media voters who are prepared to select player ballot nominees based on playing careers that probably peaked 15 years ago - and not said players current occupation as a coach/broadcaster/executive.

      Nowak certainly got a boost his first year of eligibility as he won MLS Cup as a rookie coach in 2004 right before his name appeared on the ballot. 13 years later, his coaching career leaves a different impression, and not a lot of us are around that actually remember him playing for Chicago.

      One of the things that does bother me is the disconnect between who the Players and the Veterans vote in. But that's probably just me. And given the math that Kenn has succinctly pointed out about the voting pool, I'm not sure that making the two ballots have exclusive voting pools would help.

      We may just be in a 10-20 year period of what we're seeing now. I don't think anyone would doubt that the number of critical media attention being focused on professional soccer in the United States is at an all-time high.

      We may just have to wait until the Roldans and Pulisics and Palmer-Browns and Pughs and Lynn Williamses are on the Hall of Fame ballot to greatly expand the media pool to include the newer media members. We need people who witnessed the history through their own lens and perspective. Any attempt to artificially expand the pool now by educating potential voters is fraught with confirmation bias with the educators pre-selecting who is/was deserving. If we tell newer media members that Tiffeny Roberts was one of the all-time greats, she'll likely get in. If we tell them that she took advantage of being on teams of great players and her numbers were artificially inflated, but that Shannon Mac was better, she probably won't. (I voted for Millie)

      The answer nobody wants is that we may just have to wait it out.
       

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