US National Stadium?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by usmnt777, Jun 30, 2011.

  1. hoboken16

    hoboken16 Member

    Jan 16, 2003
    Jersey City, NJ USA
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    let KC host a Match involving Mexico, Costa Rica or Houduras, then we will see. If I'm not mistaken I believe for some STH's the gold cup match was included
     
  2. Blue Eyed Soul

    Blue Eyed Soul New Member

    Jan 22, 2003
    Gilbert, AZ USA
    Here are my replies to this post (too many quotes):

    Since when does a series of false equivalences equate a "discussion".

    False equivalences? Try again. Do you even understand what my point is?

    So? Vancouver artificially limits access to an event in high demand so that their fans will have access as away fans at Seattle, by mutual agreement

    Yes! You got my point. Did I say that there was something wrong with that situation? Or does it illustrate my point that access restrictions happen every day? Never once did I say that minorities or protected groups are restricted, I said access to purchases is restricted.

    So? Georgetown artificially limits access to an event that it's in high demand.

    Ditto my reply above. Did you read the thread?

    So? There is no inherent "right" to purchase something that has been limited to an already restricted membership based on a legal restriction. IOW - Cost of Membership.

    Wow. I think that's another way of saying exactly what I said, right? This is easy.

    Just because someone is a student of university X, their ability to purchase a ticket in the section is not limited by who they root for.

    But I don't have access to the tickets to buy them....do you get it? Again, I was saying that I as a casual fan cannot buy tickets there in the student section because I don't have a student ID. It does not have anything to do with the team I'm rooting for.

    Actually, you can. Provided you're attending with a person that requires additional accommodation so as to enjoy the game, you can buy the seat next to the open wheelchair slot. But if you go down there and just plop yourself down there, you just look like a dick and risk removal. The stadium is required, by law to provide such accommodation.

    Maybe I was not crystal clear here. If the seat is unsold and every other seat in the house is sold, if I am not handicapped I can't just buy a ticket there (by myself). That's my point. We all know that such accommodations are necessary. I hope that helps.

    They're provided to, either in essence or in fact, minority groups, who would not otherwise have access. The examples are the exact opposite of "restricting".

    Again I'm talking about either de facto or de jure access to ticket purchases, not restrictions my friend.

    You'd have a point, if the USSF, had venue control over this recent tournament. They did not. CONCACAF did, and CONCACAF was under no obligation to create a "home" atmosphere. They sold tickets to make a profit.

    Now I'm sure you didn't read the thread because I described a WCQ, not the Gold Cup.

    I can't speak for Matt, but I wish people had a better grasp on reality and facts around here.

    I've acknowledged that you cannot restrict a person that has a valid ticket from entering a stadium and taking that seat for any reason. Please make an argument as to why providing exclusive tickets through a supporter's club to each federation is illegal (and yes, I know fans of the other team can buy tickets in the other fed's sections). And thanks for the insulting reply. I'm once again reminded why lurking is so much more fun.
     
  3. GOREVS3000

    GOREVS3000 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 18, 2006
    Boston
    Club:
    2 de Mayo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And note that the population density skews heavily to EAST of the Mississippi River, so if any national stadium were to be built or selected it should be on the East Coast, preferably in the Northeast.

    "Sanctuary Cities" Seriously, brah?

    I think RFK Stadium in Washington, DC would be a great national stadium. It's not that massive, only 48,000 seats, it's got character that most shinny new SSS lack, it's on the East Coast and beneficial to European based players, it's got public transportation access, and it doesn't cost much to rent.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  4. "username"

    "username" Member

    Northern Virginia United
    United States
    Mar 20, 2010
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Being totally biased, I would like RFK to be the national stadium, but that won't happen.
    The way to solve the problem of non-US crowds is commitment, it's not like all of the US fans were eagerly waiting on their computers for when the tickets went on sale, but the Mexican fans pressed the button faster. And for the people worried about bringing their kids to these games, if 100 guys brought two kids with them that would be 300 more people on top of however many other Americans are there. Not extremely significant, but if those kids go to the game, then they will practically be locked in as US supporters and when they are older they will go to the games and bring their kids.

    And for the guy who said we are idiots because who will play in it for the rest of the year. Is that what they said when they were building wembley. You would be hosting the MLS Cup, USOC, US qualifiers, CCL( not entirely sure if you could do that), and for all I care you could play the USL championship there. Just make it the heart of soccer in America, a place that other countries would hate to play.
     
  5. TheAssasinCaterpilla

    May 7, 2011
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    I agree, They should play at RFK because it's it's not too large, it's in the nations capital, and it's far from Mexico. Plus it has a Great Atmosphere.
     
  6. CbR

    CbR Member

    Nov 10, 2000
    Bergen County NJ
    national stadium is just a piple dream. What the USSF should be concerned about is how to give the US the best possible home field advantage.

    the only way it happens is if the AO and Sam's army gets first dibs on tickets. Second.. the supporter's club of the hosting MLS SSS should get 2nd dibs b/c odds are if you support MLS and are hardcore enough to join a suppoters group you probably are more likely to be a USMNT fan than a guy surfing the web on ticketmaster.com. And finally general sales of course to fill out the rest.

    The venue has to be small enough for option 1 and 2 fill it up as much as possible before it goes to general sales.

    for the northeast 1 stadium comes to mind and that's PPL park b/c of its geographic location (4 I95 mls teams) and size(18-19k). AO, Sams Army, union supporters clubs, RB supporter's clubs, and NE supporters clubs get first crack at them.

    im not familiar enough with the rest of the country's soccer landscape but Portland also could be an excellent option if done right. I remember the great support portland had back in 98 when Ramos scored the game winner/WC clincher in Portland. It was the first true 90%+ homefield advantage
     
  7. 7211

    7211 World Class

    Jun 28, 2010
    Mr. Warmth's debate skills are comical. I don't think he actually reads the posts he's responding to. Either that, or his mental capacity is actually as limited as it appears.
     
  8. MattXG

    MattXG Red Card

    May 17, 2010
    The perfect city is clearly Chicago.


    A pretty central location in the country and North -- not too many illegals hiding out there.

    It doesn't hurt that its a pretty big city either. Seems ideal.
     
  9. Coyote-Trickster

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    God forbid you take the time to learn how to use the quote tags. You seem perfectly capable of using the italics tag. They're both on the same line.

    You didn't have one.

    You really haven't thought out the mechanics of trying to do that, have you Obviously not. The examples you gave involves matches scheduled months in advance between known opponents.

    For an international tournament, the logistics of what you're proposing are impossible, particularly in knockout rounds. How are you going to hope to sell 30% or 40% of a stadium to each of two opponents fans who can't be sure they're even going to be in that round, not to mention likely don't have the fans to sell those amount of tickets unless you're Mexico or El Salvador on the East Coast. Are you hoping that there are going to be a bunch of Americans who are going to grab the unsolds and/or any reserve for locals to fill the place up and help you break even on the tournament?

    Group stages would be marginally easier, you still run the risk of having tons of unsolds because the various Nation's federations have to set up some way for their local fans to purchase and get tickets and we know that other than for the US, Canada & Mexico, the logistics of that for the federations of the rest of CONCACAF are daunting. They would likely just farm it out to Ticketmaster, who really isn't going to care about restricting ticket sales based on creating a "home atmosphere" for anyone. They exist to make money.

    Yes. Your premise that ticketing access to the GT/Syracuse game has anything remotely to do with International Soccer matches played in the US doesn't begin to border on the absurd. It jumps the border and heads for the Capital of Absurdistan.

    Wow. I think that's another way of saying exactly what I said, right? This is easy.

    Actually it's not. But feel free to drink from Fountain of Delusion.

    But I don't have access to the tickets to buy them....do you get it? Again, I was saying that I as a casual fan cannot buy tickets there in the student section because I don't have a student ID. It does not have anything to do with the team I'm rooting for.

    Until recently, you could, because students routinely scalped their reduced price tickets for maximum value outside the stadium. So as electronic information technology became more common place, universities fixed this by tying your entry to your student ID, rather than issue paper tickets. They did not do this to restrict access, but to protect the value of their product.

    You can buy a ticket for the handicap space, you just can't use it unless you're handicapped, it's reserved by law. There is no way to verify during ordering that your'e actually handicapped. You can buy the adjacent seat and buy the ADA space next to it, but no one other than a disabled person can use the ADA space. Venues are ridiculously strict about ensuring the ADA space is only used by someone who needs it. The cost usually breaks people from pulling this stunt, but I've seen it done for hard tickets.

    What you're talking about is trying to create artificial reserves of tickets in the hope that lazyass US Soccer fan will purchase them. Even if there is an allocation reserved for "away support", a venue cannot legally deny someone from buying an unsold seat somewhere in the stadium. That is why teams create the allocation, so that away fans don't have to worry about some drunk ******** messing with them, they can be together, and as a courtesy so that their fans will be able to have the same privileged in opponents stadiums.

    I was responding to your Let's Have a Discussion post, but I'll go ahead and backtrack:

    The USSF does not own any stadiums in the US, nor do they have the legal right to tell either the MLS club that owns the stadium, or more to the point the local municipality or stadium authority that owns/operates the stadium who they can and/or can't sell tickets to. If a person attempts to buy a ticket for a publicly scheduled and advertised event and they are denied by race, nationality, ethnic background, citizenship status or, who they're a fan of any other reason other than their ability to pay, civil rights laws have been broken and litigation will ensue. The USSF already tried this bullshit back in the run up to 2002 WC during qualifiers after the embarrassment at RFK of every Honduran ex-pat within driving distance of RFK turning it into San Pedro Sula North. As soon as word of what they were trying to do got out, a couple of diplomatic delegations from CONCACAF countries started questioning the legality of doing such under US law and the policy was quickly buried. It's seems the brainiacs behind it never ran it past the USSF's legal counsel before trying to pull it off, let alone any outside constitutional counsel.

    Well, there are a couple of reasons. The USSF doesn't want to run the legal risk of the clowns in Sams Army/American Outlaws doing something illegal in the distribution of tickets, that's why the USSF maintains distribution control via their little "official club" through ticketing promotions and codes. Further, as stated above, the venue is leased by the USSF, so when they back in 2001, tried to restrict sales on the basis of "What team you are a fan of?" (Yes, that was the actual question asked by USSF ticket honks), they found out that that was illegal under US law. Something about the Civil Rights era and people marching, protesting and dying, just so they couldn't be prevented either legally, or by force, from sitting anywhere they damned well choose, or purchasing a ticket and setting where they felt like.

    Actually it skews east from the I-35 corridor, but your personal bias is duly noted. No location in the US going to not have 25,000 Mexican fans within driving distance to the stadium, at a minimum. And before anyone says "Alaska", they haven't been up there to see who's populating crews on the oil rigs and pipelines lately. Such a stadium would deny the entire west coast of games and would be very difficult to explain to fans why they are forced into transcontinental travel while a bunch of locals can't be bothered to show up.

    Correctly stated, No such thing.

    Yeah, the only problem is that it's falling apart, actually costs and assload to rent (Ask DCFans about that) and will easily fill with Mexican, Salvadoran and Honduran fans when US fans can't be bothered to buy tickets.

    Oh and it's a dump too.

    For obvious reasons.

    Generationally, we are just hitting the period where there are significant numbers of American born men who played soccer and/or watched soccer as fans who are having kids. That's going to move fandom and attendance faster than anything, and hopefully coaching. Think about it, until recently any youth soccer has been primarily coached by volunteer parents, most of whom never kicked a ball, but if you drive past a youth football or baseball practice, there are half a dozen dads out helping teaching kids to hit, field, pitch or run routes, tackle, block etc.

    It was me. And why would you make that asinine comparison? Wembly was built by the English FA at a cost of $1.5 billion dollars. Our Fed couldn't afford to build a stadium for 10% of that, let alone the $250/$300 million it would take to build a 25,000 seat stadium in DC or any east coast market.

    And if the USSF can't afford it, who's going to take the risk on building it and owning/operating it? DC can't get a set of aluminum bleachers erected so they're out. Where's they money coming from? Answer that. Oh and go check out Wembly's schedule, past and future, they're pretty empty most of the year, but they can afford to build something like that as something that will never pay for itself because they're the FA and they make billions off of the 900 levels of soccer they have from the NT down to the semi-pros. Not to mention millions in sponsorship associated with the NT. No one is writing checks for the US like that and we don't have 2000 professional and semi-pro soccer teams in the US to suck fees out of.

    1) MLS Cup rotates and the USSF can't make MLS play it there every year.
    2) The USSF does run the LHUSOC, but it wouldn't come close to filling a stadium if one or both of the teams weren't very close. USSoccer fan doesn't travel.
    3) US Qualifiers? Sucks for you rest of the country? Seriously, US Soccer fan doesn't travel and local fans just don't fill the stadium.
    4) CCL = CONCACAF: Same issues as Gold Cup
    5) USL Championships = Ok, who's going to buy the other 18K tickets?

    You want to make it a place where other countries hate to play, buy all the tickets as soon as a match is announced.

    See above. RFK is a dump. It's expensive to rent, it needs to be torn down because the cost of renovations is more than the cost of a new stadium and regardless of how far it is from Mexico, they'll be there, just like the Hondos were in 2001.

    Nice idea, only problem is that if SA/AO start limiting who they allow as members, they'll be sued. Same with S8, Nordecke, anyone else, because their membership is not exclusively "US fans".

    The only way to stem the tide is to make more US fans and get them to buy early and often. Simple really.

    They'll find their way in. Not even CCS is the 90/10 bastion it was in 2001.

    They foreign fans will still buy the tickets unless US fan gets off his ass and buys them first.

    We were playing Costa Rica. They probably have the lowest immigration rate from their country to the US of the major central american countries.

    More to the point, the people I respond to, usually don't know what they're talking about, which makes them look exceedingly dense as the spend time moving goalposts and arguing "new" issues that stopped being "new" two WC cycles ago.
     
  10. TheAssasinCaterpilla

    May 7, 2011
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    hey hey woah, I know everyone hates DC...and DC hates everyone, but we can all hate Mexico together in a "hey that's my little brother only I can hate on him" way.
    Here is some proof that DC is on board for US support

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  11. Coyote-Trickster

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I never knew US Soccer fans were so borderline racist and/or xenophobic, since most of them have secondary fandom for foreign NT's/Clubs


    When the US plays Mexico in Chicago, it's the same as Pasadena. There is a huge Mexican expat community in Chicago and they, like most every other expat community, legal residents, legal immigrants or US born/naturalized citizens. Seriously, Mexican NT and Mexican clubs play in Chicago all the time in New Soldier Field and put way more fans in it than any other soccer team does.

    Illegals generally can't afford the costs of attending games, given the USSF/CONCACAF ticket prices.
     
  12. Coyote-Trickster

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unless the Hondos, Mexicans or Salvadorans are playing.
     
  13. Wessoman

    Wessoman Member+

    Sep 26, 2005
    Austin, TX
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do you know how I know that you've never seen the 2001 World Cup qualifier between the USA and Honduras?
     
  14. Racomando

    Racomando Member

    Celtic and Rangers
    Jun 27, 2011
    The World
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    Tonga
    To me a national stadium in Saint Louis would make the most sense in the most obvious of ways: it's in the middle of the freaking country.

    But the United States has enough stadiums already.
     
  15. Racomando

    Racomando Member

    Celtic and Rangers
    Jun 27, 2011
    The World
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    Tonga
    Seriously, if this guy can't even figure out that Chicago has a large Mexican community...
     
  16. "username"

    "username" Member

    Northern Virginia United
    United States
    Mar 20, 2010
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't use bgisoccer like it my job, and I simply refuse to read throug that whole post again, but to say it shortly we are our own worst enemy, we just need to shut up and go to wherever the game is wherever the USSF puts in, we are on this thread because as someone said(probably you mr. Cold[sorry it was too easy:)]) it is just a pipe dream, won't happen, but it's fun to speculate without risk of being shot down in depth by a fellow United States supporter, and while I'm crying out for help can you (mr. Warmth) get in a debate with these flames at world rivalries ( run by the Mexicans) https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1135848
     
  17. Racomando

    Racomando Member

    Celtic and Rangers
    Jun 27, 2011
    The World
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    Tonga
    Nice handle grab "username" So THAT's why I couldn't use it.
     
  18. Racomando

    Racomando Member

    Celtic and Rangers
    Jun 27, 2011
    The World
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    Tonga
    oh and by the way "username" check out your precious U-17..the future is here....losing 4-0
     
  19. Racomando

    Racomando Member

    Celtic and Rangers
    Jun 27, 2011
    The World
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    Tonga
    Or we can ship all the Huns back to Europe. Where they belong.
     
  20. Racomando

    Racomando Member

    Celtic and Rangers
    Jun 27, 2011
    The World
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    Tonga
    Or we can ship all you Huns back to Europe. Where you belong.


    (just kidding btw)
     
  21. MattXG

    MattXG Red Card

    May 17, 2010
    Someone's touchy....
     
  22. Coyote-Trickster

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And people wonder why US Soccer has trouble attracting hispanic fans...
    You're funny. Like Cancer.

    Somebody's a bigot.
     
  23. Non-dairy Creamer

    Feb 28, 2007
    oh, not in amerika, you see the US Soccer federation has a special order code and webpage on ussoccer.com just for visiting fans to get tickets, you see, making money is more important than giving the team a home field advantage, and this is for WC Qualification games, not friendlies either.





    you're like 13million off
     
  24. metroflip73

    metroflip73 Member

    Mar 3, 2000
    NYC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    one of the bigger problems in US fandom. people can keep ignoring it, but it's there.
     
  25. Coyote-Trickster

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1) You could not give the team a "home field advantage".

    2) How is the USSF supposed to function without money?
     

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