I don’t get upset for losing youth tournaments. Period. But #1 Are any kids look having good upside? Don’t know. #2 Are they coached right way? Not. Last 10 minutes of the game, they have chance to run with the ball, but instead just kicking back to give possessions back to Mexico. That bad coaching. #3 They just let Mexico freely cross balls near the box. I can count about 6-7 chances in this way.
The standouts w/ realistic potential to be senior team regs were: Berchimas, Soma, Tsakiris, Vazquez, maybe both CB's & the K (but it's hard to evaluate defensive positions in youth) I think Figueroa fits in that group, but that's not supported by anything that happened in this tourney. Hopefully he gets a shot under a better coach. The U20 WC team should have even more changes than normal, & that includes the manager.
Cremaschi was at the Olympics, not w/ the u20's. He played a little. Didn't look up to that level. Should have been in Mexico instead. You'd figure he'd have been a fixture.
The C'CAF U20 championship seems to have completely lost it's shine. Way too many players feeling that they should either stay with their clubs or be called up by the full MNT.
Why shouldn’t they? Most can be won back over time and aren’t permanently cap tied and were developed by MLS academies
if we're assessing this cohort....then we should assess this cohort specifically with how it might help the usmnt or not players playing for or choosing other countries should be written off, imo the whole convo started with talking about how this u20 team didnt have its full complement of players....so players that either dont want to play for us or cant ....are irrelevant, imo if the question is: how is the usa developing talent...then maybe.....but that question is not going to answer how this actual generation will help the full usmnt...which is all that matters
The only player in this cohort that is permanently lost is Obed Vargas, so disagree there. Most of the interesting players weren't in this group but the group did pretty ok which means that the 2005s who are assessed as a down year will probably not be a great producer of MNT players but not a lost generation either. Frankly, the amount of talent in the 2008s and 2009s will likely outshine this group completely.
personally im not a fan of players that arent sure in both ways just make up your mind if you wanna play u20 for mexico then bye (my opinion) same for players who refuse to come because they wanna keep eligibility for another country etc imo you cant count esmir, for example....he wants to play for bosnia
I think overall the talent level isn't that high, but they are better than people think because the age difference -- especially across sooooo many players -- exacerbates a lot of differences. He said only 3-4 players on the team get caps. I think there'll be more that get caps than that, though that's probably the cap on regular contributors. Not sure why you are excluding Berchimas when the team includes him.
The point I’m making is that the 05’s/06’s from this team aren’t going to be future USMNT players. Maybe a few of them get the occasional cap here or there, but there are only a limited amount of players per age group that truly turn into players that regularly get USMNT caps and it’s probably not going to be this group of C/D teamers from the age group.
I’m responding to this: “The team isn't stacked with talent, for sure, but there's more talent there than people want to admit” Not to make this too semantical, but I think it’s actually the opposite. This team has only a few of value and the rest are not going to amount to very much. Hard for people to conceptualize, but these are truly like the Camp Cupcake level players for this age group.
The trend I see when projecting future full team players is the predictions always slant young. People get excited about the top U15 players because they are judging off potential. As time goes on and these players rise up age groups, the excitement levels narrow to a handful of players and the conversation immediately turns to how great the current U15/U16 crop is. I mean, we are just a few years removed from Brian McBride taking about the plan and pathway for Cruz Medina to get into the full team. Now he looks like a player that might not even get into the U20WC for his age group. When Soma was discovered around the U16 level, he was thought of as our best youth prospect. He’s a fantastic player, but many have cooled on him. This is normal as it becomes indefinitely more difficult to dominate games as players age. The point is, it’s much easier to predict once these players are on pro deals and we can see how/if their own club rates them. As 17/18/19 year olds struggle to get meaningful first team football, their names are replaced by the young U15/U16 players that are turning heads. We will see the same with the current 08/09 crop as they get to the U19 level. People will be talking about the 3/4 guys that could reach full team heights and the excitement level will switch to the 2011/2012 class “that could be the best ever.” Getting 3/4 regular contributors from one birth year might not sound like a lot, but it’s a great year of production. If you look at our most current team, 2002 age groups had the most players, that was 5. The thing about those 5 are 3 of them were developed outside the US and the other two were out of the US developmental system at age 16 and 18. I think you have to wait until players reach 20,21,22 to truly see where they might fit. The worry for me is that US Soccer seems to always favor guys that have been part of the “system.” Therefore, it becomes increasingly difficult until to break in as a player ages, even with age group YNT competitions still happening. If you get to 19/20 without being part of the program, you have to be producing at a big club to get a sniff over guys that have always been in the system.
I think there’s some merit to what you’re saying, but the 08’s/09’s (really more the 09’s as the 08’s are probably closer to good than great) are showing signs that they could be at a much higher level than what we’ve been seeing. The 10’s already look average, at best, so I don’t think it’s exactly what you’re saying. This stuff ebbs and flows, and there will be differences.
Yes, it is. Getting 3-4 from a U20 cycle (basically 2 years) is a little thin, but from one years, that's actually pretty strong.
A MNT will have 10 to 15 year range in age and you want about 30 strong players. Averaging 3 contributors per year is perfect.
Interesting data set I just looked into. Of the 23 outfield players on our Copa America roster, 19 of them were out of the US development system by age 18. This includes those that grew up abroad and were never involved in our youth system. This does not include Sergino Dest who never played here. As a comparison, the 2022 World Cup team had 15 of 23 outfield players that were abroad at 18 years old. Quite possible there is some randomness involved, but it makes you wonder if there is a trend. If you look at our U20 group that just finished runners up in CONCACAF, it would favor Soma, Kohler, Figueroa, Harangi, Zambrano. Of course it doesn’t mean others can’t reach these heights, but it does show it might not only be advantageous getting to Europe, when you go might play a role.
The trend is that the very best players get sold to better leagues at a young age because they are better. You've got your cause and effect largely flipped. I'm not saying going to say, Dortmund, is a bad idea. But Christian Pulisic wasn't some unknown that went to Dortmund at 15/16 and they developed him; he went to Dortmund because he was so good. There's no doubt that the players who develop from birth in "soccer countries" are going to have an average higher level of skill. Largely because we start later and with less focus. I also think your count is wrong -- Adams, McKenzie, Ream, Miles, Aaronson and Pepi all left after age 18. It was still mostly at 19 or 20, because again, talent.
We sucked in Copa America, in part due to the prejudice against domestic-bred players, so this is a circular & ironic measurement. There should be a normalization under the next manager. That's one thing that's going to return us to form. Then building off that, the domestic-bred player who transitions to Europe in their 20's could raise our collective level when they do their own thru maturation. That's the only way we're going to be an elite footballing nation. It's not going to be w/ other nations developing our players. Those have to be the exceptions not the rules.
Yes, yes, I agree. All were talented, known quantities. Talent can get you a move abroad at 18/19 and it can get you MLS debuts at 17/18/19. I just found it interesting that it was the amount of players on the latest roster. These were the players. 1. Shaq Moore - 18, Spain 2. Antonee Robinson 3. Cameron Carter-Vickers 4. Haji Wright - 18, Germany 5. Luca de la Torre 6. Weston McKennie - 18, Germany 7. Christian Pulisic - 16, Germany 8. Josh Sargent - 18, Germany 9. Tim Weah - 14, France 10. Chris Richards - 18, Germany 11. Folarin Balogun 12. Johnny Cardoso 13. Kristoffer Lund 14. Malik Tillman 15. Gio Reyna - 17, Germany 16. Yunus Musah 17. Joe Scally - 18, Germany You’re right, my numbers were off without looking at birthdates. These players were close as well. 1. Ricardo Pepi - 19, Germany 2. Tyler Adams - 19, Germany As I look at this in more detail, it also sticks out the amount of these players, even at 18 who went into the youth setup of their new club abroad. Very few if any went straight into the first team.