US-Jamaica, the attack

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by superdave, Oct 7, 2021.

  1. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    He didn't do the main work but his run helped clear space on the first goal that opened up the pass from Musah to Dest for the cross to Pepi. Also, in an open game he is excellent....except as a finisher. First half he struggled but in the 2nd was much more effective.
     
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  2. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I liked our attack with the exception of our set pieces.

    Only criticism is we probably should've finished more chances.

    I know I'm old school, but sometimes we should cross the ball early instead of playing it back and rotating again from the wings. Especially since Pepi is good at finding space in the box!

    It's no surprise to those of us that watch the friendlies a while back but Musah adds something completely different in our attack. Still baffled he didn't get off the bench in Nation's League.
     
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  3. VictoryWePredict4Thee

    VictoryWePredict4Thee BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 4, 2019
    There are plenty of mediocre mls players who can do that. Yet we have numerous talented players that offer more.
     
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  4. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    So who is our best supersub? Is it Aaronson, or is it Weah?
     
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  5. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Aaronson
     
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  6. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    As far as I am concerned, for what he does well, there are very few if any, in our pool that are better. The question isn't how good he is at the things he does, but rather how does it balance out with the things he doesn't do as well. We definitely have players with more talent (MLS and Europe) and I'm not one that believes he is an absolutely necessary part of our 23, let alone starting 11. I wouldn't be heartbroken or upset if he were to be left out.

    By the way, which mediocre mls players do what he does?
     
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  7. VictoryWePredict4Thee

    VictoryWePredict4Thee BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 4, 2019
    Too early to say, imo. Could also be Musah and don't forget about Morris.
     
  8. golazo68

    golazo68 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 21, 2004
    Brazil
    I think he may start him in Panama now. He wanted to give him extra rest.
     
  9. VictoryWePredict4Thee

    VictoryWePredict4Thee BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 4, 2019
    Seems pretty clear
     
  10. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Arriola in this game is a litmus test for how everyone thinks about soccer. He wasn't spectacular or anything, but I think the team played far better with him than it would have with say, Konrad.

    His movement constantly stretched the defense. His relentless pressing constantly was pushing Jamaica back when they otherwise had openings. He actually forced a couple of dangerous situations -- one of which the ref took away. He should have drawn a red.

    He ran all game and set the standard for intensity. But the movement ... really. Honestly, go back and watch El Salvador and then watch this and watch all that open space.

    There are dudes who can do what Arriola does. He ain't special in terms of skill. Weah is one -- and he beasted as well and may very well take over Arriola's role.

    But not every dude WILL do what Arriola does. People constantly play down players who work within the gameplan, make the runs and the passes they are supposed to ... and then think the way to break down a defense is with dribbling.

    Today, we absolutely broke down an admittedly mediocre Jamaica team -- though one that almost tied Mexico on the road -- but we did it with off ball movement.

    We don't want a full roster of Arriolas. That's more or less the Gold Cup roster. But we also don't want a full roster of Dests. You need a mix.

    Now maybe the Arriola becomes Tim Weah and everyone's happy ... just like Pepi has taken a lot of the good parts of Zardes and added some insane finishing.

    But just because a dude is more skilled doesn't make them more effective. You need guys who will work, and run, and make the right movements and the right passes.

    Arriola was good overall today.
     
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  11. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Attack was good today. Very good. Good chemistry to take to Panama
     
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  12. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    I don't get the mixed verdict on Arriola. He was outstanding. A pressing demon.
     
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  13. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    he was in theory, anyways.

    and i really hope berhalter isnt planning on starting anyone (any non-keeper, i should say) all three matches.

    let gyasi trip over himself working the backline for an hour in panama- thats where you drop pepi on their ass. i get the instinct to have all pepi all the time but lets not turn our only piano tuner into another piano carrier (especially an 18 yo).
     
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  14. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was so strange to watch, since we moved so poorly in the last window...
     
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  15. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I'm not sure 190-200 minutes will hurt him at all. And I think the drop-off from Pepi to anyone simply affects our chances of scoring more than any other move on the field. It may be just a hot streak (I don't think), but he's the difference between a decent number of wins and ties, IMO.

    Perhaps it is a bad move. But I'm not a Zardes hater, and I worry that starting anyone but Pepi means we are headed for a tie. That said, if I got a quick goal, I might hook him at halftime. If I got two quick goals, I'd hook him immediately.

    It's an interesting debate.
     
  16. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Honestly, that's what baffled me about the last window. We so looked like we had abandoned any plan. Direct play, possession play ... didn't matter so much as we didn't look like we were all on the same page.

    Not every game is going to look like this -- Jamaica is not particularly good and I feel like they are breaking as a team -- but it's nice to see a plan.
     
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  17. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t think some saw it, but Arriola’s runs made it difficult for Jamaica to work the ball forward from the back line. Dude was pressuring like a maniac.
     
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  18. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How can anybody pick on Arriola after tonight?

    He was miles better than Pepi in the first half in movement, closing down, first touch, etc.
     
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  19. jackiesdad

    jackiesdad Member

    Apr 13, 2008
    Great post. Most of us know that almost all scoring chances start with a play 5 or 6 passes before the actual shot that you can look back on and say "that goal would not have happened if not for..." Whether that be a potential lost possession which was saved by a slide to tap the ball to a teammate, or an outright steal, or a run to open up some space and distort the shape of the defense, or pressure to force a bad pass. No, Arriola doesn't have a clinical finish. But he always seems to be that guy 5 or 6 plays before a scoring chance who makes it happen. It's a shame more people don't appreciate that.
     
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  20. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I liked what the broadcasters (I think either Keller or Jones but can't recall) were saying about Pepi. Even in the first half, when things were very difficult and crowded, he didn't drop deep to try to touch the ball in midfield. He kept battling and kept pushing himself high, occupying the center backs and keeping things spread out. When the chances came, he was in great position. Sargent thinks he is helping when he drops deep all the time to get the ball, but he's just letting the defense relax, push up and stay compact. And our shape goes to shit. A striker has to occupy that center space and make the defense play them for 90. Pepi does that.
     
  21. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #46 adam tash, Oct 8, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2021
    second half.

    arriola did have some positive hustle momnets. he did well to win the ball and start a break once....

    to me, he is an outside back.

    but the accuracy of his last touch is ALWAYS OFF. he just doesnt have it and cant play fast one touch soccer like the rest of the team.

    he is the best hustle player in the pool ...but thats not enough to get on the field as an ATTACKER imo...his touch and finesse is that bad.

    if you notice he dudnt have a single touch in either of the goal buildups last night.....not a coincidence!

    if he had ...the goals likley wouldnt have been scored.

    and as far as the open space -

    it starts in midfield....Musah running and turning with the ball and not putting on a backpass clinic....THATS where the space comes from.

    once a mid of defender beats their man and takes the ball towards goal everything opens up! that needs to be the offense! not holding mids constantly circulating and backpassing all game

    yes I agree there is some benefit to what arriola does and he probably hustles better than the rest of the pool....he would be a good outside back...just not a forward...because if you watch...a lot of attacks died with his last touch A LOT. his hustle is valuable but his danger is just not high enough....get a better winger who hustles and can finish/play one touch....his style is effective but he isnt.
     
  22. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seriously stop posting.

    the guy makes a perfectly weighted pass to Aaronson where he gets chopped down at the edge of the box to prevent a goal and your take is he was bad and if he was involved in a build up we wouldn’t have scored.

    he made a perfect run and was chopped down from behind in the first half as well.

    Our two best first half attacks were due to his running and passing.

    you have to comment on the game that was played and not your opinion of a player because of his stats on 2015.

    He had a great game. I didn’t like seeing him in the line up, but you have to acknowledge his contributions last night.

    http://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/4493225
     
  23. cyberthoth

    cyberthoth Member

    Nashville SC
    Aug 7, 2000
    Nashville, TN
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think long term the player you are describing is Aaronson. He seems to be willing to do the hustling/pressuring thing Arriola does and has the danger element. He needs to get physically stronger but the will is certainly there.
     
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  24. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/recap-usa-2-jamaica-0

    heres the MLS highlights....arriola makes zero appearances in these....

    i get it that people see the game differently...but i know what i saw.

    im thinking about playing brazil and argentina.....arriola will be useless against teams like that....his hustle wont bother them and his touch won't be good enough.

    there cant be any weak links out there for players like pulisic and reyna to play one touch and break through teams....

    im not considering el salvador and jamaica. they dont matter.

    arriola is another yueill/trapp imo

    waste of a spot.
     
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  25. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    if arriola is so amazing why havent we even heard rumors of him going to europe?

    he went to the championship and never got off the bench last season on loan...thats about his level...bench championship player/league 1...the usmnt has better options.
     

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