US-Iran, the tactics and subs

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by superdave, Nov 29, 2022.

  1. GKbenji

    GKbenji Member+

    Jan 24, 2003
    Fort Collins CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I made this comment out Berhalter's offensive tactics some time ago, and it still applies: how many times have our attackers been offside in recent memory? I don't recall who said something to the effect of "If you're not offside, you're not trying" but it applies here for sure. That pass just doesn't get made.

    The number of times I've screamed "Play him in!" and they just cut it back or play to someone with back to goal is maddening to me.

    (Okay, I went back to the past 10 meaningful games, excluding the KSA and JPN friendlies. US offside 7 times, opponents 11. Probably not statistically meaningful. But still.)
     
    JUnionFan repped this.
  2. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Something for people on all sides of the issue in this video

     
  3. RossD

    RossD Member+

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Oh good lord. He's 19. He can be however he wants.
     
    gogorath and RalleeMonkey repped this.
  4. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Thanks you! As far as I can tell, these player are all headed assists? I'm all for that. Like I was saying, I don't think the long diagonal is going to result in anything unless the assister one-times it.
     
  5. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I would say the Dest to Pepi header against Honduras was very similar in the September window, and that wasn't one time.

    That said, you've hit upon something we're not good at. Quick passes. We have a lot of heavy touches, a lot of uncertainty, a lot of wanting to dribble over passing. We've simply got to be quicker with the pass.
     
  6. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Well, I distinctly remember a Tim Weah goal chalked off for offsides by the semi-automated computerized "you're offside by a depth of your bent knee" call that would've otherwise put the Iran game relatively on ice.
     
  7. GKbenji

    GKbenji Member+

    Jan 24, 2003
    Fort Collins CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In away that makes my point--they played that pass, and it ended up with the ball in the back of the net. Why not play it more often? Maybe next time Weah's knee will be skinnier and it'll count.
     
  8. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Agreed!
     
  9. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Honestly, to get a better idea, you'd have to scour the tape. But generally, playing that pass requires a) a pretty high line by the opponent and b) little to no pressure on the passer to identify the passing line on the right timing. The forward and the passer need to recognize it and execute. The passing lanes from the passer need to be open.

    We have had games where we've tried and made a ton of these -- against Costa Rica after Nations League, the first half against Saudi Arabia, though most were over the top.

    We don't see very many high lines without pressure on the passer. That's a giant no no. It's a defensive mistake. We don't see very many high lines at all -- Iran played more of a midblock against us. They played defensive, but didn't straight bunker, but I imagine if you go back, you don't see their CBs up so high very often?

    It's possible we don't prioritize this kind of action, but we do play it. But defenses don't often play high, not pressure the ball and leave open the passing lanes. Not good ones, anyway. And sometimes players don't recognize it.

    Is it tactical or player driven? Probably some of both and reinforcing each other. Weah (and maybe Wright?) are the only players who make these runs a lot, and we don't have a lot of great passers.

    But go back to the Saudi Arabia game. We went away from it for some reason, but the first thirty minutes there was a clear plan to attack the high line -- we know this because Weston was making runs along with Pulisic and others. We just couldn't convert crap. Those went over the top, but it's not a dissimilar concept.

    I do think this is where Reyna as a passer would help. Neither Musah nor McKennie are spectacular at this and Reyna is a better passer. But good defenses don't give up these chances a ton.
     
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  10. GKbenji

    GKbenji Member+

    Jan 24, 2003
    Fort Collins CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep, all those factors... and this. Maybe it's just me, but I feel like they've been trained to look for other options. I've seen moments where it was there, the players saw it, and seemed to just decided to to something else. You're certainly correct that if we are up against teams in a low or even mid block, the opportunities to play in behind like that are far fewer.

    Again, perhaps just me, but it feels more tactical. Lack of through balls when the opportunity presents itself and the "pass the ball into the net" aspect of the attack are all "features" of how the team plays offense.
     
    TimB4Last repped this.
  11. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    In the end, unless someone speaks up in detail, it's going to be really hard to tell.

    My feel is this: we've definitely had games where it was obviously part of the tactical plan. And we definitely execute it from time to time. If you go back, in early 2019 before Pulisic was moved to winger, shorter through balls to the wingers was THE part of our possession offense. We also clearly emphasis off ball movement and runs behind the defense.

    I also don't think we have the greatest passing vision as a team -- I've seen far too many transitions where the clear choice is ignored to think we have consistent passing vision.

    So I'm pretty confident that we aren't told to not do these kinds of things, or to hold back for the sake of possession in most situations (maybe some late game). We've gotten more risk taking and direct post- 2021 GC.

    But that said, do I know to what level we push them? Nope. Like I said before, we've had some games where vertical movement like this was a clear priority, and others where diagonal switches were a clear plan, etc. It may even vary game to game. The amount of runs behind by wingers varies pretty wildly, but it is always part of the plan. Striker, less so.

    For the Iran game, I'm pretty confident that Iran didn't give it to us a ton -- they generally weren't that high.
     

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