US-Honduras, the coaching and the subs (R)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by superdave, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    An offensive comparison of current US CMs

    Player..........Matches.........Goals.........Assists
    Bradley........73...................11...............5
    Feilhaber.....40....................2...............1
    Kljestan.......38.....................4..............3
    Jones..........27.....................2..............5
    Holden.........17......................2..............4
    Adu...............17......................2..............3
    Zusi................8......................1...............1

    JJ's work on the defensive side of the ball should be clear?
     
  2. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    The central midfield midfield generated plenty of against Brazil. The run of play stats were excellent. Plenty of attacking verve has been generated out of the formation including against Russia.

    Number of goals surrendered in the 433 in the matches against Scotland, Brazil, Russia, and Honduras. 8
     
  3. nowherenova

    nowherenova Member+

    Jul 20, 2003
    Formerly Terminus
    I think a lot of posters are overrating our player pool in comparison with the other teams in the hex. Qualifying has never been a cakewalk, and the continuing improvement of our regional rivals in terms of soccer infrastructure will ensure continued parity in the region.
     
    aw072760 repped this.
  4. ttrevett

    ttrevett Member+

    Apr 2, 2002
    Atlanta, GA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Would it have been unreasonable in anyone's eyes, looking at that pitch, being thick and dense, looking at the temps and humidity, looking at our players potential for jet lag, looking at the inexperience of our backline, for us to come out and park the bus and counter only when they were pulled out of shape? We were not 90 minute fit, not on that pitch in that humidity with the majority of players in season in cold places. I would have been delighted to have them run at us for 90 minutes, have us park Cameron, Gonzalez and Williams in the defensive third, and instruct FJ and TC not to venture too far up the pitch, and sending JA and EJ long balls intermittently to keep their back 4 honest. It takes a very skilled team to break down a bunker, and while we ain't Brazil, they certainly aren't Argentina either. We didn't have the horses or horse power to go toe to toe with them in SPS. What we should have done was lure them into our end and pounce in the 80th minute when they were dog tired. It would have conserved our outside backs, and forced them out of shape.

    My concern is that I don't know if JK can look at the situation, the fitness of the players, and the skillset and alter his gameplan to fit. He wants the players to alter themselves to fit his plan. As Kinnish said, and I want a -job from Kristy Turlington. He may be just as 2 dimensional as BB was with his empty bucket.
     
    Fanatical Monk, Craig P and ChrisSSBB repped this.
  5. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

    May 21, 2010
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    That's true. I should probably revise that statement a tad. We looked excellent against Brazil once we finally pushed numbers forward and got both Donovan and Dempsey on the field at the same time. But in the first half, we really didn't get going at all.
     
  6. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Klinsmann got outcoached and then blamed the players. Though not as self-exculpatory, still shades of the previous regime at Costa Rica.
     
  7. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    It'll be worth revisiting once the backline gets sorted.
     
  8. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    On paper, it's a fairly typical 4-3-3.

    But the game was not played on paper but in Honduras.

    And if you have three holding mids going both ways, they better be one heck of holding mids.

    And the forwards have to be able to hold their own too.

    Fail, fail, fail, fail.
     
  9. Ball Chucking Hack

    Jan 21, 2005
    Raleigh, NC
    Going by just goals and assists, shouldn't our central midfield be Donovan, Dempsey, and Beasley?

    Jones has a deserved reputation as a midfielder who covers ground and can break up attacks. But has the US as a team been substantially and consistently better defensively b/c of Jones?
    That is less clear. And mind you this is not always just a question of defending per se. If your midfield can break up attacks but turns over the ball in bad places. That's bad defense.
     
  10. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    Bob Bradley did anything but toss his players under the bus after losses, let alone take shots at them between games. Arena was the one who did that occasionally.
     
  11. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    He did, but it's not important to the thread.
     
  12. ttrevett

    ttrevett Member+

    Apr 2, 2002
    Atlanta, GA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This experience has all the markings of the wheels coming off the bus for JK. Looking at his face when he was being interviewed by Bob Ley, he was in a panic. He had a tough time with eye contact, his face was tense, and he had a very defensive posture. He was saying, if I'm going down, my players are going to break my fall.
     
  13. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    Fair enough. Maybe my memory is failing me.
     
  14. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Everyone takes knocks in life. Hopefully he bounces back.
     
    Ball Chucking Hack repped this.
  15. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you question JJ's defensive contributions I have nothing else to say. I have offered an explanation why the former and current USMNT head coach (in 2012) have made JJ an automatic starter.

    If you believe that JK should sit Jones then tell us who should be played in JJ's place?
     
  16. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    Arena blamed the stadiums!

    The stadiums said nothing in return.
     
  17. Tony in Quakeland

    Jan 27, 2003
    Pleasant Hill, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Concern about his judgment and propensity for fouls are legitimate, however. He could easily have been called twice in the first couple minutes in Honduras. They are not always a consequence of playing hard, but often seem to be temperamental. It’s something you have to add to the discussion when talking about him.

    Ozzie Alanso!

    But until that even becomes possible...Cameron plays that role for his club, as has Ream. If Edu gets rejuvenated in Turkey, he's a possiblity. Or you drop Bradley further back and put a more purely attacking player in the center of the mid. Jones is probably still the best option, but there are certainly discussion points about alternatives.
     
  18. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

    Jun 12, 2002
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A quote from yesterday that I missed.

    At Russia we saw a midfield trio of Jones-Bradley-Williams. It morphed around a bit as all lineups do as the action plays out, but with Gatt at right wing and Jozy and Gomez also starting, the midfield was really founded on the J-B-W trio. That was our most recent A-team game prior to the Honduras game. Klinsi stuck with that, except EJ for Gatt (switching flanks) and Dempsey for Gomez.
     
  19. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You are quite right. I stand corrected.
     
  20. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    The basic dilemma JK has faced is the abundance of quality central players and scarcity of wide players playing at a high level. His solution has been to shoe-horn more central players into the lineup than you usually see. I would change tack and try some of the options we have as wide attacking players even if they don't have the pedigrees of the central mids types.

    Some possibilities: Using Fabian Johnson as a wide attacking player. Pontius. Gatt. Corona. Moving Dempsey back wide. Adu (not a natural wide player, but was effective there in with the U23s). Beasley would give us some balance wide. Shea when healthy and fit has a big role to play.

    None of these solutions are perfect. But I think they should be looked at rather than continuing along the present path.

    I also think we need a more creative central mid, whether Feilhaber, Kljestan, Mix or Torres. Again these players may not have the pedigree of some of the others. But I think they would bring better balance.

    We've just been playing too many of Bradley, Jones, Edu, Williams, and Beckerman. Bradley is the best of this group, and I'd be happy if he were the only one in the lineup. At most there should be two from this group playing in the midfield at any given time.
     
  21. Susaeta

    Susaeta BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 3, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Interesting that while those three were in the central midfield, the US was losing 1-0.
     
  22. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    neither jones, bradley, williams nor jones, bradley, edu has really worked for the team. 6 and double 8s should be saved for friendlies.
     
  23. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Guilty men don't defend themselves because they CAN'T defend themselves.
     
  24. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Good argument for just making him a 10 really.
     
  25. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

    Jun 12, 2002
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, could be meaningful.

    I'm not defending the 3-headed CM, just pointing out that those 3 particular players have been used together before.

    I do understand why Bob Bradley tried a version of the 3 CMs after the 2010 Cup, and why Klinsi has been trying it in a slightly different way. But I don't think it has worked under either guy. The team looked clogged up under both attempts.
     

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