"US health system ranks last compared to other countries"

Douai · May 15, 2007

US health system ranks last compared to other countries
By AFP

WASHINGTON, May 15, 2007 (AFP) - The studies by the Commonwealth Fund found that the United States, which has the most expensive health system in the world, underperforms consistently relative to other countries and differs most notably in the fact that Americans have no universal health insurance coverage.

"The United States stands out as the only nation in these studies that does not ensure access to health care through universal coverage and promotion of a 'medical home' for patients," said Commonwealth Fund president Karen Davis.

"Our failure to ensure health insurance for all and encourage stable, long-term ties between physicians and patients shows in our poor performance on measures of quality, access, efficiency, equity, and health outcomes."

In "Mirror, Mirror on the Wall: An International Update on the Comparative Performance of American Health Care", the study focused on interviews with physicians and patients in Australia, Britain, Canada, Germany, New Zealand and the United States who were asked to speak about their experiences and views on their health systems.

The US ranked last in most areas, including access to health care, patient safety, timeliness of care, efficiency and equity. Americans were also last in terms of whether they had a regular physician.

"The US spends twice what the average industrialized country spends on health care but we're clearly not getting value for the money," Davis told AFP.

She also noted that 45 million Americans, or 15 percent of the US population, have no health insurance, which contributes to the country's medical woes.

The United States is also far behind in adopting modern health information technology, which translates into spiralling costs and poor care.

"We pride ourselves on being advanced on so many areas of technology but it's not the case on health information technology," Davis said. "Other countries have just moved ahead."

Britain got the top score in overall ranking among the countries in the study, followed by Germany. New Zealand and Australia tied for third followed by Canada and the United States.

The second study delves into why health costs in the United States are so much higher than in eight other countries of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development: Australia, Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Japan, the Netherlands and New Zealand.

The study, "Multinational Comparisons of Health Systems Data," found that even though the US spends the most on publicly and privately financed health insurance, its citizens had the most potential years of life lost due to circulatory and respiratory diseases as well as diabetes.

"This study blows a lot of myths about the US health system," Davis said. "We spend three times what the average country spends on a day of hospital care and we also spend twice what the average country spends on prescription medication."

Health care is likely to be a prominent issue in the 2008 US presidential elections with various candidates already promising to tackle rising costs and the burden placed on big business to provide health insurance.
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http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/news/americas/20070514-US-health-care-bad-ranking.html

NMMatt · May 15, 2007

The US has a worse health care system than Australia, Britain, Canada, Germany, and New Zealand. This is news?

When it comes to health care we manage to combine the worst part of the market system (inequity in distribution of assets) with the worst part of socialism (lack of competition and incentives).

Foosinho · May 16, 2007

This kind of talk is blatently anti-American. Don't you support the troops?

Mel Brennan · May 16, 2007

https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10139421&postcount=93

JBigjake · May 16, 2007

Opinions differ

Hmm. My relatives in the UK, several of whom work in hospitals themselves, complain about the level of care in the socialized medicine system. I haven't heard rave reviews from my Canadian relatives either.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1801190.ece
"Ninety-two out of 204 A&E departments are under threat"
Nothing like losing your local emergency room because the NHS decides it should be in a city center.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article1801496.ece
"Nurses consider pay action"
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article1782038.ece
"Superbug kills NHS critic’s father"
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article1796104.ece
If you think France is better, read on:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article1751520.ece

Swab the poopdeck · May 16, 2007

Re: Opinions differ

JBigjake said: ↑

Hmm. My relatives in the UK, several of whom work in hospitals themselves, complain about the level of care in the socialized medicaine system. I haven't heard rave reviews from my Canadian relatives either.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1801190.ece
"Ninety-two out of 204 A&E departments are under threat"
Nothing like losing your local emergency room because the NHS decides it should be in a city center.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article1801496.ece
"Nurses consider pay action"
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Er...you do know you've just compared the NHS to...well...the NHS. That's a wholely different thread.

JBigjake · May 16, 2007

Opinions differ

Swab the poopdeck said: ↑

you do know you've just compared the NHS to...well...the NHS.
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No. I've just noted that those who cite studies or make claims that other countries medical systems provide top notch care at rock bottom prices need to acknowledge that many hold the exact opposite opinion.
I'm not happy that so many Americans lack health insurance. IMO, national health care is not the solution.

BenReilly · May 17, 2007

Re: Opinions differ

JBigjake said: ↑

I haven't heard rave reviews from my Canadian relatives either.
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I certainly have, but I'm more influenced by the numbers. American health statistics are woeful, which is why you need to rely on silly anecdotes.

JBigjake · May 17, 2007

Opinions differ

BenReilly said: ↑

you need to rely on silly anecdotes.
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Chew on this:
http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=pb&id=801
http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1292
Some insight into NHS internal unhappiness & public loss of faith: http://www.bmj.com/cgi/data/334/7600/DC1/1

GringoTex · May 17, 2007

Re: Opinions differ

JBigjake said: ↑

Hmm. My relatives in the UK, several of whom work in hospitals themselves, complain about the level of care in the socialized medicine system.
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More Americans think Healthcare is the most important problem facing the country today than think terrorism is.

That's an extraordinary indictment.

John Galt · May 17, 2007

Re: Opinions differ

JBigjake said: ↑

Chew on this:
http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=pb&id=801
http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1292
Some insight into NHS internal unhappiness & public loss of faith: http://www.bmj.com/cgi/data/334/7600/DC1/1
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Hilariously, in response to the statement that statistical date on health outcomes is more telling than "silly anecedotes", you link an article with this gem:

Anecdotal evidence of questionable quality is everywhere.
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NMMatt · May 17, 2007

Re: Opinions differ

JBigjake said: ↑

No. I've just noted that those who cite studies or make claims that other countries medical systems provide top notch care at rock bottom prices need to acknowledge that many hold the exact opposite opinion.
I'm not happy that so many Americans lack health insurance. IMO, national health care is not the solution.
Click to expand...

I agree. I think universal health care should be the goal, but trying to emulate European socialized health care is setting the bar too low. I'd prefer a hybridized approach that encourages competition such as Edwards Plan. I especially like the idea of health care providers being paid based on results.

CrewDust · May 17, 2007

The biggest cost any hospital has is labor and I don't see anyone working at one taking a pay cut.

JBigjake · May 17, 2007

Opinions differ

John Galt said: ↑

Hilariously, in response to the statement that statistical date on health outcomes is more telling than "silly anecedotes", you link an article with this gem:
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"Anecedotes"?
Perhaps anecdotal evidence is significant as a measurement of dissatisfaction.
anecdote >noun 1 a short entertaining story about a real incident or person.
The story of my uncle going blind while on a waiting list for years for eye surgery usually has them rolling in the aisles.

The Gribbler · May 17, 2007

CrewDust said: ↑

The biggest cost any hospital has is labor and I don't see anyone working at one taking a pay cut.
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They'll probably have to under a more socialized system. That, or go work in Hong Kong.

JBigjake · May 17, 2007

Opinions differ

GringoTex said: ↑

More Americans think Healthcare is the most important problem facing the country today than think terrorism is. That's an extraordinary indictment.
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How do those numbers match up with the ones thinking Bush knew?

Caesar · May 17, 2007

Re: Opinions differ

It's easy to pick holes in socialised national heathcare systems, because god knows they're far from perfect in a lot of ways. That's not news, anyone who lives in a country with it will tell you. What's worrying is that in every comparison between them and the US system, the US comes up near the bottom in almost every catagory.

The reality is that mixed/hybrid healthcare systems are consistently the best-performing type. The US moving to a mixed system would go a long way to solving the major stumbling-blocks with the current setup.

But then, this isn't news.

argentine soccer fan · May 18, 2007

This is anecdotal, but I just had an experience that pisses me off.

I had a tooth that has been bothering me for a while. I did a root canal and it got reinfected. I had surgery through the gum and again it got reinfected. Finally my dentist told me that it must have a fracture that they cannot detect, and the tooth has to be taken out.

The dentist told me that I should have an implant, and referred me to a place that would charge me about $3,000.00 for the implant.

The good news is, (I thought), that I have dental insurance. Unfortunately, when I called them they said that they do not cover implants, because I can get a bridge instead, in which case they would cover half of the cost.

I went back to my dentist, and he said that a bridge would cost a bit less than an implant, about $2,600.00, but he doesn't reccomend it, as they would have to work on the two adjacent teeth, which are perfectly fine. He insists in his recommendation that I get an implant, even though the insurance doesn't cover it.

So, I called my friend in Argentina, who is a dentist. He told me to go over there, he would do the implant for 500 bucks.

500 bucks!!! I told him as a friend, that if I ask him to do it, I don't want a discount. He said no, that is not a discount, it is what he normally charges. And he specializes in implants.

The only catch is I have to go twice, because you get the implant and you have to allow six months to elapse before you put the crown. But still, even paying for two trips, it is still cheaper. I get to visit friends, go watch Boca play, get the dental work done, and the overall cost including airfair is still less than what I would be charged here for the dental work alone.

So I wonder, why the ******** do I even pay dental insurance?

DamonEsquire · May 18, 2007

The insurance tries to look for the cheap way out (especially if there isn't enough persons invovled). Most people go to dentist twice per year. Also somethings are minor and some things are major. I do know. In the ancients way; some have died from pour tooth decay. However in general; if you do nothing about it. You will either create more problems or the tooth will naturally expell itself. So its kinda of a gamble. Thats the way the body is designed...

Boloni86 · May 22, 2007

argentine soccer fan said: ↑

This is anecdotal, but I just had an experience that pisses me off.

I had a tooth that has been bothering me for a while. I did a root canal and it got reinfected. I had surgery through the gum and again it got reinfected. Finally my dentist told me that it must have a fracture that they cannot detect, and the tooth has to be taken out.

The dentist told me that I should have an implant, and referred me to a place that would charge me about $3,000.00 for the implant.

The good news is, (I thought), that I have dental insurance. Unfortunately, when I called them they said that they do not cover implants, because I can get a bridge instead, in which case they would cover half of the cost.

I went back to my dentist, and he said that a bridge would cost a bit less than an implant, about $2,600.00, but he doesn't reccomend it, as they would have to work on the two adjacent teeth, which are perfectly fine. He insists in his recommendation that I get an implant, even though the insurance doesn't cover it.

So, I called my friend in Argentina, who is a dentist. He told me to go over there, he would do the implant for 500 bucks.

500 bucks!!! I told him as a friend, that if I ask him to do it, I don't want a discount. He said no, that is not a discount, it is what he normally charges. And he specializes in implants.

The only catch is I have to go twice, because you get the implant and you have to allow six months to elapse before you put the crown. But still, even paying for two trips, it is still cheaper. I get to visit friends, go watch Boca play, get the dental work done, and the overall cost including airfair is still less than what I would be charged here for the dental work alone.

So I wonder, why the ******** do I even pay dental insurance?
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I came to the US when I was 11, and I still go back (to Romania) at least one a year. When I took my summer vacations as a teen, my mom always insisted that I do my medical/dental checkups there. I'm 26 now and I've gotten all my dental work done in my home country at the same physicians/dentists that knew me as a kid. The work that they do is excellent. I've always ended up saving money even though I have coverage through my employer now.

GoldFinger · May 23, 2007

A few more medical schools might help lower costs...there are 50% more law schools than med schools in the US.

ThaiKV · May 24, 2007

Re: Opinions differ

Caesar said: ↑

It's easy to pick holes in socialised national heathcare systems, because god knows they're far from perfect in a lot of ways. That's not news, anyone who lives in a country with it will tell you. What's worrying is that in every comparison between them and the US system, the US comes up near the bottom in almost every catagory.
Click to expand...

Interesting that no one has pointed out that looking like

OR

OR

will cost any healthcare system, socialized or not, more money compared to a non-obese population. And since these guys represent the average American pretty well, it is no wonder we have an expensive system.

Caesar · May 24, 2007

Re: Opinions differ

While the US does have the highest obesity rate of the countries we're talking about (roughly 30%), it's not a sufficient explanation. Other OECD countries have much, much less expensive healthcare systems despite coming close - the UK and Australia both have rates somewhere in the vicinity of 20-25%.

striker · May 24, 2007

IIRC, most US made drugs cost more in this country than overseas. One often used excuse by the biopharma industry is that R and D for these drugs cost a lot. While that is true, my question is why do we have to pay more in order to subsidize the rest of the world who uses the same drugs.

BigGuy · May 24, 2007

Douai said: ↑

http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/news/americas/20070514-US-health-care-bad-ranking.html
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And yet they come from all over the world when they need an operation and that includes from England.

Go figure?