US Goalkeeper discussion thread - Part III

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by ussoccer97531, Nov 15, 2017.

  1. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Yes, they are. However, you said you don't see any reason why the top 4 won't be the guys you listed...

    ...And here's my reason. Inconsistency and mistakes are just killers in defense. GK and CBs have little room for error.

    Steffen has been inconsistent his whole career, always overrated as a shot stopper, and has a bad back at times. Could he develop further and become a clear top level GK? Sure. But we have a three year time horizon, and while a coach is going to start with the name, I'm not convinced he's better than whoever is the Melia/Frei/Stuver equivalent.

    Horvath is just inconsistent. People have always wondered how he can make great saves, can do well in the Champions League and then get benched? It's howlers and poor play that come for him. Coaches don't like that. Again, I think he has the potential to be even better than Zack. But if he is still making those kind of mistakes in 2026, other people can overtake him.

    And Slonina has more potential than almost anyone, but his production was mediocre in MLS last year. So he's got to get more production, though I agree he is more likely to get it.

    I guess my point is this: this isn't such a certain group that I'd bet against the field. Pre-Turner emergence, people seemed fairly certain of Steffen and he didn't even go to Qatar. None of these guys are Tim Howard, where it's unlikely to see a run of form that gets them dropped.
     
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  2. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    #5277 KALM, Mar 2, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2023
    Below are all of the players aged 30 or younger who started regularly in MLS during the 2022 season or in the Championship during the 22-23 season, along with their Whoscored or Sofascore ratings for those seasons.

    Whoscored

    1. Roman Celentano (22) - 6.75
    2. Zack Steffen (27) - 6.67
    3. Drake Callender (25) - 6.64
    4. Gabriel Slonina (18) - 6.56
    5. Alex Bono (28) - 6.54
    6. JT Marcinkowski (25) - 6.49
    7. Ethan Horvath (27) - 6.42

    (For reference, Matt Turner (28) had a 6.95 for his 2021 season.)

    Sofascore

    1. Zack Steffen (27) - 6.9
    2. Roman Celentano (22) - 6.85
    3. Ethan Horvath (27) - 6.82
    3. Drake Callender (25) - 6.82
    5. Gabriel Slonina (18) - 6.81
    6. Alex Bono (28) - 6.8
    7. JT Marcinkowski (25) - 6.78

    (For reference, Matt Turner (28) had a 7.04 for his 2021 season.)

    Both of those systems have Celentano and Steffen as their top keepers (though neither one can beat Matt Turner's score the last time he was starting regularly), and both have JT Marcinkowski near the bottom.

    Am I missing anyone else in that age range in a comparable league who started regularly in 2022 (i.e., a good majority of their club's games)? Otherwise, that's a slightly smaller pool than I was expecting.
     
  3. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think with Steffen his shot stopping stats in MLS were never on the level of Turner, but he was the MLS goalkeeper of the year and MLS Best XI in 2018 right before he left.
     
  4. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think the cumulative metrics do as good of a job as psxg+/- for keepers, though that still leaves some things out too, like claiming crosses & ball-playing. The cumulative metrics are better for outfielders.

    The Celentano stats also exclude a couple playoff matches & the first game of this season. He's been a monster in these. That would put him over the top.

    In conjunction with his age, that puts him on a trajectory to surpass the likes of Steffen and Horvath, if he already hasn't. Trajectories aren't linear, it must be said though. He could stagnate or regress. Typically you're going to improve as a young player however. And this hasn't come out of nowhere if you follow his career.

    I think people should be fairly excited about his near future. A player but not positional analog who I saw early in MLS I'd compare to him is Miles Robinson. He was young enough, performed well as soon as he got a shot, & had plus tools. But he sort of got overlooked by prospect onlookers for YNT members and younger kids who just showed flashes or had worse tools.
     
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  5. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I got swept up in at the time somewhat I admit, but it was a joke he was anywhere those awards, and it was heavily based on doing well in a penalty shootout at the end of the season. That was a small sample and niche skill for a keeper.
     
  6. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    The hype. He wasn't even in the top 5 that year. Like immense hype around very talented Slonina last year.
     
  7. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In addition to the bit I responded about Celentano, I should note that between his good start, Callendars, as well as the elevation of Pulskamp (21) and Schulte (21) as starters for now, in addition to it being realistic that Brady (18-19) will seize the job in Chicago; this is trending to being a vastly improved year for domestic goalkeeping prospects in MLS.

    Last year was a historically bad season in that regard. It was between generations, and the last position to benefit from the academy boom is naturally going to be goalkeeper.
     
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  8. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    I haven't seen enough of young kids, but like with Celentano having Callenders in the goal would make me comfortable. And, please, let's stop mentioning TJ and especially Bono in the NT threads.
     
  9. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Slonina



     
  10. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    I wonder if any club in League 1 could use an emergency loan for April or May.
     
  11. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  12. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  13. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Shoulda went Turner in the shootout arsenal…..
     
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  14. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Bill Hamid is 32. Still technically in his prime, but has been hampered by injuries. Tim Howard is the sporting director at Memphis.
     
  15. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    With Daniel out for the season, the Quakes should have gone for him.
     
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  16. Yowza

    Yowza Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Oct 23, 2019
    Arlington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think he’s done, his body just won’t respond correctly. He was once cat quick and could get low with best of the best but that’s all over. I’m glad he’ll keep playing if he wants to but MLS would have been a mistake.
     
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  17. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Fair. I'm just remembering old Hamid, I think.
     
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  18. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
  19. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    9 hours sleep? I guess he's still growing.
     
  20. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
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  21. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  22. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    Boy did that URL get my hopes up by deleting two key words from the article's headline.
     
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  23. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    Tenorio had an extensive discussion with Zack Steffen. Sounds like religious faith was a key element to Steffen in moving on from missing the World Cup, along with focus on his opportunity with Middlesbrough.

    Steffen does mention that he had to miss out on the June 2022 callup due to personal reasons. Perhaps the unfortunate timing on that played a role:

    https://theathletic.com/4344089/2023/03/24/usmnt-zack-steffen-world-cup/
     
  24. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Really great that both Steffen and Horvath are playing constantly and doing well. They can really compete and help push Turner. I always felt that was great about having Howard/Guzan 10-15 years ago. Howard knew he couldn't slack off and would perform superbly and we knew that Guzan was reliable enough as a backup.

    Not sure why Hudson didn't start Horvath or Steffen against Grenada.
     
  25. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000

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