You know what, this is a very good point. We also have no qualifying to worry about. So we could burn some friendlies getting them caps especially in the MLS off season with camp cupcake games against Scandi Nations who are off in the winter too.
Who the hell knows who will emerge? When it comes to keepers, sometimes its the youth stars that end up advancing....................and sometimes its a guy that comes out of absolutely nowhere like Matt Turner. Turner wasn't even drafted into MLS. Zero appearances for USYNTs. For me the challenge with keepers is always playing time. Horvath was and is a really good keeper, but was in the playing time wilderness for years. That effected his chances of playing a significant role. If Steffen had gone somewhere for weekly playing time, I bet he makes this roster. Instead he went to Man City. And who can blame him? He got paid a fortune to be on one of the best clubs in the world. Anyway, point being that yes............Slonina, Slonina, Slonina. But he could very easily be "Horvath'd." Its why there's always room for the most in form MLS keepers. And by the way, in the goalkeeper rankings I look at the most............that actually was Sean Johnson in 2022. Followed by Slonina and Celentano. Out of the top 10 keepers in MLS, I bet only about 4 of them are USMNT keepers right now. Which is a weird thing for a nation that thinks it can produce goalkeepers at the drop of the hat. Many MLS clubs use a foreign player slot on a keeper. Statistically only the three above and Brad Stuver of Austin are in the top 10. Its guys like Blake (Philly), Coronel (NYRB), Paes (FCD), Crepeau (LAFC), St. Clair (Minnesota), Room (Columbus), etc. etc. Its not like we're shipping so many keepers abroad that we have to make up the numbers by signing foreign keepers. There just aren't a multitude to choose from, and a bunch are about to age out of the picture altogether (Stefan Frei, Steve Clark, Tim Melia, etc.). ITs a topic of discussion on the youth boards. Why aren't we producing as many solid goalkeeping prospects as we are in other positions? Cuz we've got more wingers than we can use on our youth teams. Cremanschi of Inter Miami can't get into the US u20 team, so goes to Argentina U20 camp. That's how stacked we are. But keeper? Eh. But as I said, with keeper sometimes its a guy that comes out of nowhere like Matt Turner that ends up being the senior keeper. The timeline is different.
Isn't it weird that as the pool is bursting with prospects unrivaled in our history the one spot we used to be the most solid in is bare. Wonder why that is? Is it because of being bad with feet?
I have become a huge Turner fan. I have as much confidence in him as I have had in any American keeper (with the possible exception of two hour and just after he stood on his head in the World Cup). I fully expect him to get a starting job in a top 5 league. At the same time my confidence and Steffen has plummeted, possibly irreparably damaged. So I really hope that Horvath or one of these youngsters will be a reliable back up. I tend to think Horvath can do it.
In a world I want to live in, we wouldn't be arguing about which of our keepers in the Championship is better. That level shouldn't be good enough for the USMNT. Lynden Gooch is on a better team than both Steffen and Horvath. He's getting nowhere near the USMNT. But as Donald Rumsfield once said: You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time. Who the hell knows what either Steffen or Horvath is going to do next season. They could go somewhere and sit on the bench again. But hell, this is the life of a keeper. Look at the path of Emiliano Martinez of Argentina. He went to Arsenal in 2012. From 2012 to 2020 he actually only played 15 games for them. He was just passed around on loan for years and years. A real vagabond existence. Many of those places he sat there as a backup. Then finally he got a shot at a #1 role full-time with Aston Villa at the age of 29. That got him in the Argentina team in 2021. The rest is now history.
I find it nuts that so many managers/clubs seem to actually care about having a keeper who's good with their feet. Surely, enough prioritize the traditional form of a keeper and thus would still want some of our guys who are noted for being quality for cheap.
There aren't that many teams in the world that really can afford to invest a transfer fee, substantial payroll or the equivalent of an international roster spot on a keeper. I think sometimes people forget that Americans heading to Europe or other countries often face a number of non-sport related barriers to entry: transfer fees, international rules, scouting costs, pay, language barriers, play or cultural risk, etc. The vast majority of teams aren't really even looking for an American keeper; there are other, easier, cheaper options. The teams that can afford to do that are often on the other end of the spectrum; they are often picky and want everything in their keeper. That said, I do think many of these teams would be better off punting on this and just grabbing an elite level shot stopper -- even some relatively big teams have thrown away seasons with poor keeping. But I think sometimes we think the fluidity of the market across the 30 richest teams is the fluidity of the market up and down the pyramid and it's not really close.
how do i put this. my theory on how we should be running the pool is akin to world cup knockouts. you start out with a full set of who you think could hack it. 6-8. give them a game or two in net over the next year or so.steadily winnow down. winners stay on performances instead of theory. virtue of the process is if keeper 1 or keeper 3 falters then you have keepers 4 and 5 tested already. we put all our energy in about 2 keepers and at the end of a 4 year cycle weren't sure what to do and were rostering guys who had gaffes just that summer. that's improvising, not true "form" or lining up the best 3 proven over time. i have no problem with giving caps to younger players. you can include slonina and celentano. there was some super tall kid playing in england too, who i think was also in camp. to me the game is to anticipate first team readiness and then be ruthless who among the veterans and rookies are actually best. i think capping should be aggressive but also the cull afterwards. so if you wanna roll the dice on slonina, fine, but it's at that transition from scouting their chance to evaluating how it went that the big boy pants have to go on. personally i feel like during this 433 sweeper keeper fashion phase the usually superior quality of american keeping has deteriorated. i don't think we should be in the promise and excuses business. let's get back to figuring out who the best 3 keepers are. so i think treat them all like adults and take the ones who perform best now. the younger ones might have 15 years left to fight their way in and have their era.
broader point we need to start being better at our own assessments and less concerned with what chelsea or dortmund or lille thinks. weah was a great player for years and it's not his fault the level of team he was on. in fact that he was subbing at PSG, lille, celtic, etc. could have been seen as a compliment. but wasn't. this cuts both ways. i think we should be more aggressive to cap and begin wiorking with our weahs reynas. as klinsi was with green, or arena with donovan. we should anticipate the really good ones and not be behind the curve waiting on "club form" like GB. however once in US camp all that plus a quarter should buy a coffee. you can either do it for the NT or not. we shouldn't be circling back to club form as an excuse for poor NT play. ream was literally the only guy on the world cup roster, picked for being on a supposed hot streak, who played like it. i'd prefer we pick players on NT form which is more trustworthy.
So we have an established no.1- Turner with a few runner-ups like Horvath and Johnson a possible returnee- Steffen potential no.1 - Slonina a bunch of guys in MLS who could turn out to be really good if they're given caps in due time - Brady, Celentano am I write with that?
^THIS JK gave all the caps to Howard and Guzan instead of giving guys like Hamid and Johnson opportunities (in endless friendlies) to earn caps and showcase themselves to foreign clubs. Not to mention ignoring guys like Frei and Melia. I do believe our young guys should earn it but at the same time they need the opportunities that will go a long way toward potentially helping the NT.
I agree that club level isn’t an iron clad indicator of quality, but it is an indicator. When we face WC quality opponents it is the guys who are regulars in the Top 5 leagues who tend to shine for us. It’s no accident that Jedi, Pulisic, Weah Adams, McKennie, Musah and Ream were generally good for us. So would Reyna have been if he had the chance. Probably Aaronson and Scally too. It doesn’t mean that there won’t ever be exceptions (like Turner). Yedlin had one good appearance, IMO. But it is also no coincidence that those who struggled most in Qatar were not playing in the Big 5. It makes sense that if you are playing elite opposition regularly, and competing against elite players in practice, you will be thinking and playing faster. You are used to the big stages.
Scratch Johnson, the idea that above average MLS keeper will be still good enough at 37 is a sweet dream. Scratch Steffen he has never been good enough to play on the MNT, and, of course, will not now considering his issues. Brady, Celentano, Callender etc. don't need that much of MNT time, they will be fine. For any pre 2026 either Slonina or Celentano are ready to be #3 already, and maybe even #2. Brady isn't ready, and won't be ready for a couple years. Horvath does need time, we need a strong back up to Turner.
Hamid and Johnson got more chances than they deserved. Neither was ever good enough to play above MLS level. Frei or Melia would have gotten us to the 2018 WC. But Melia started his career at 27 with a black mark of MLS pool keeper, and never looked amazing athletically, his abilty not to be scored upon was perceived as a luck for a long time; the similar story with Frei, who isn't a great athlete either, and got his citisenship really late.
The failure to pick keepers that could have helped in 2018 by multiple coaches doesn’t get talked about enough. I’ll stand on a rock and scream until coarse in the throat that Frei sound have helped us that cycle
Howard’s reputation likely kept him in goal when a lesser resume guy probably would’ve been an upgrade in that moment. Too bad the lesson had to be learned in the worst possible manner.
That's a kind of understatement. After good preinjury 2016, in 2017 limping Howard was the worst keeper in MLS. Arena is generally very loyal to his players, he often keeps them for too long.
Shrug. Any new USMNT coach will start with a clean slate. And presumably will have his eyes set on Gold Cup 2023 and Copa America 2024 before setting his mind completely on WC 2026. [He'll certainly have one eye on it from the start.] Johnson certainly can be in the group vying for a spot on those tournament rosters. The whole Ream situation this cycle should keep us from burying anybody prematurely solely due to age. We will see how Slonina, Celentano, and the others develop. Slonina could easily go to Europe and get "Hovrath'd" on the bench somewhere for 5 years. And as depressing as it sounds............we really don't know what's going to go on with Horvath, Turner, or Steffen's situation beyond this year. None of them are #1s for their clubs. Horvath could easily go back to Forest and be "Horvath'd" next year. It wouldn't take much for Turner only to get 10 games or so next season. We also aren't leaving Steffen behind. Our pool of keepers isn't so deep that we can afford to. He'll be looked at by the next USMNT coach. [If we had a camp tomorrow with the whole pool available..................I'd call in Turner, Horvath, and Slonina. The 3rd keeper never plays, and I'll want to start with a young guy. Berhalter actually did this throughout his tenure. Remember when he was bringing David Ochoa as 3rd stringer keeper to camps and events? He had Odunze of Leicester as the 3rd keeper at the early Euro-based camps. We never talk about Odunze in our young keeper pool. It'll be interesting to see if he's loaned somewhere in this window.]
Zack Steffen in goal for another Boro win today. They beat Birmingham (and Auston Trusty) 3-1, and are up to 5th in the Championship standings. Perfect start to the year 🙌 #UTB pic.twitter.com/uXcEGTXqtb— Middlesbrough FC (@Boro) January 2, 2023
It was pretty amazing how he turned down a WC call up to stay and improve with his club team so that he would get called up to the WC . Wait, what?
Sean Johnson update: Nothing is agreed with any club, per sources.Johnson is heading to Toronto FC for a visit soon, TFC are interested.But Johnson still remains in talks with NYCFC as well. Nothing decided.Johnson turned down a (small) offer from the Netherlands. pic.twitter.com/7NBTyoHbjN— Tom Bogert (@tombogert) January 6, 2023
Next round is Man City Four clean sheets in five starts for Matt Turner at Arsenal 👏 pic.twitter.com/iCUjD8EKAu— USMNT Only (@usmntonly) January 9, 2023