US Germany, the midfield

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by superdave, Jun 6, 2026.

  1. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen much of any discussion in any of the threads of Berhalter's elastico by the corner (that he couldn't keep in, barely). I think I saw a single comment even mention it. When he did that I said "Wow, who the hell is that? Dest?", only to see who it was on the replay. I was shocked. Never expected such a thing from Berhalter, and very glad that he's added some one-on-one skill to his game that I hadn't seen before.
     
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  2. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Adams has shown some terrific defensive abilities. But he also didn't track Sane on the 2nd goal, and made an unnecessary foul that led to the first. We need him to be engaged for every moment. We need everyone engaged for every moment.
     
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  3. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And Paraguay is a dirty team. If our attackers have some savvy about them (like the Germans do), then we'll get some good free kick opportunities.
     
  4. Douglas Campbell

    BVB
    United States
    Mar 2, 2018
    Super sad no Musah on this team. He was a top 7 contributor in the last world cup. Did he really fall off that much? Arguably he was better than Adams in 2022, given Adam's shady marking vs. the Netherlands.
     
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  5. Trav-Man

    Trav-Man Member

    Jun 7, 2007
    Dallas, TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Musah hardly played any club minutes this past season, so yea, he wasn't doing well. He was never making the US roster after sitting out the Gold Cup last summer anyway.
     
  6. RossD

    RossD Member+

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    No matter what happens this tournament I'm excited for this team. Seems we have some real depth and more young guys who didn't get called up. I'm good with any of Adams, McKennie, Reyna, Tillman, or Berhalter starting. And I think an argument can be made for the other 2 who will start alongside Adams. Last go around we ran MMA into the ground (which I think was the right call) because we had zero depth. Not the case now.
     
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  7. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For sure. I was merely trying to point out to the poster who tried to say that Adams is a bit like Musah. Utter nonsense.
     
  8. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tyler is not Superman, he can't be in 3 places a once. Adams started out helping Jedi on Havertz and Wes had Sane. That goal was a prime example of poor team defense , we can't allow a team like Germany, Spain, Portugal, France, ... to engage in a rondo drill.

    Zero pressure on the initial ball.
    Weston takes himself out of the play with the attempted steal which allows Sane to go unmarked.
    Tillman has to be tighter on Musiala, can't allow that uncontested slip pass to Havertz who Jedi let go.
    Once Havertz gets the ball with Ream defending you can see everyone shifts to trying to help Ream, Miles starts dropping back,

    See 8:04

     
  9. Dervos

    Dervos Member+

    Mar 13, 2002
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    I have the same amount of confidence in our back up midfield this go round as last go round. In other words, I'm hoping to see Tyler, Wes, and Malik run into the dirt. :D
     
  10. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think that much like Kellyn Acosta did in 2022, Seb Berhalter can come on and do a job for 25 minutes.

    I hope ...
     
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  11. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    (I don't know that he was a Top 7 contributor, but that's neither here nor there. I would not say he was better than Adams, and if we're just looking at Adams for the first goal, Musah and Dest got mixed up for Goal #2).

    It's a combination of inconsistent play, lack of development, lack of fit with the current US style of play and Musah's laid back personality probably not vibing well with what Poch wants.
    • Musah hasn't been able to hold down a consistent starting role at club, and about half he time he's played, he's been played wide. That's partly because he's had at least one stretch of play of losing defensive focus that led to real problems and partly because he's not a great ball progressor.
    • Yunus really hasn't added much to his game since 2022. He's not a better passer, which is his key gap. He's not a final third threat. He's not more active or involved.
    • Pochettino wants to constantly attack pressure by passing through it. And he wants to do that by using number in the space. So the attackers need to come back and play combination with the CMs and the defenders, and then everyone rushes forward to attack in numbers as well, running back like crazy if they lose it. Musah's tendency to hold onto the ball and protect it isn't what he wants -- he wants aggression and quick attempts to push past players. He want guys who can get into the attack. That's not really Musah. He's playing with two CAMs and two CMs.
    • And, of course, after ranting for months about commitment, Musah opted out of the Gold Cup.
    There's still an argument for Musah on the roster revolving around Athleticism, defense and floor, I think. Someone else will probably make it better than me.

    But he really hasn't gotten better as a player since 2022, at minimum. And I think from his play, you can argue he's regressed some, because at least at that World Cup, he was solid defensively.
     
  12. Dervos

    Dervos Member+

    Mar 13, 2002
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Okay, that's kind of funny because I was thinking exactly of Acosta when I was praying that Seb would never see the field. Acosta came on the field vs Wales, immediately got completely turned and skinned, leaving Zimmerman on an island that became a penalty in the box. He was utterly overmatched at this level and it cost us a goal. And yes he worked real hard, and had a really nice tackle late.

    So I guess we can agree we both get an Acosta like vibe anyway, lol. And certainly if Seb does see the field, I'll be hoping it's your positive version of Acosta we see, not the Acosta we saw vs Wales.
     
  13. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    One thing that I don't see a lot of commentary on with the 2022 midfield is that Wes really couldn't go more than ~70 minutes. Once Wes started to tire or was taken off ... we really lost control of the game.

    I think having Tyler, even if he's not quite as good as in 2022 (yet to be seen), 100% of a Better Version of Wes, Tillman (who is better than '22 Musah), more minutes of Reyna (who is not exactly the same player or 90 minutes fit but we got 45 slow minutes from him) ... that's already an upgrade.

    I will always love Kellyn Acosta's yellow on Gareth Bale, but I do think Roldan can do the proxy. Berhalter is by default better than a hurt Luca de la Torre, who couldn't play, and Brenden and Zendejas are nice players to stick into the CAM if we need to slide McKennie back.

    It's a deeper and better midfield, IMO. I think the only things you could argue is maybe Tyler's not quite as good (maybe a bit hurt?) and I can see some preferring Acosta to Roldan (not going to bother to fight it).

    But nothing else is really arguable in terms of roster.
     
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  14. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    you aren't wrong that foul early against germany in such a dangerous spot was brilliant. He was checking if his teammates were ready to play early...they weren't but he showed leadership checking them.

    He let Mane run across the pitch unchallenged but then again mane was jogging at a good pace can't expect him to use too much energy I mean he is on load management before the tourney has even started.

    there was the match against the dutch, they literally picked on him the entire match guys making runs across the middle of the pitch and adams pointing...'he is going to score' thats cool.

    people talk about the guy like he is prime kante, he isn't. I like him but he has added a lot of myth to his performances. He didn't play well in either warmup match and made big mistakes that led to goals in each.

    adams also had this strange obsession with being captain I am glad Poch stayed away from that. Leaders reveal themselves they don't anoint themselves.
     
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  15. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    super so the goal wasn't all adams....shouldn't we expect more from the best dm of his generation? I mean a stud usually plays at a level above others not to the lowest common denominator.

    I am sure you've seen the stats about the world cup and giving up goals. having a dm who is supposed to be legendary good shouldn't be having all these issues. not to mention he isn't playing full matches and he is still having these issues. I doubt he'll see a match out in the world cup but still.
     
  16. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    I take almost the opposite away.

    https://www.fotmob.com/players/431948/kellyn-acosta
    https://www.fotmob.com/players/1136096/sebastian-berhalter

    Given a career largely in the same league, these guys are not on the same level. You can see it in the fotmob ratings, where Acosta tops out at 'a bit above average starter', and Berhalter is half a point higher, the kind of rating that says 'this guy can play in a stronger league.' (My "Reverse Mendoza Line," having looked at a lot of these, is about 7.25. Acosta was never quite that good, Berhalter clears it easily.) Or you can look at their transfer value arc, where Acosta peaking at 21 says 'never quite hit the level we thought he might as a youth,' and Berhalter's peaking now at 25 says, 'guy who's having a lot of success in his pro career.'

    Also looking at the traits of the two might tell us something about the different personality of this team. Acosta was a defense-first player, and Berhalter is decidedly not that.
     
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  17. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    https://www.fotmob.com/players/621946/cristian-roldan

    Similarly, I'd fight it, and I think the stats would back me up on it.
     
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  18. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Taking a look at Berhalter's record it's pretty apparent that he himself thought that he was a defense first midfielder. His best offensive day at UNC was three shots with one on target. This smacks of a kid who was placed at too high a level a little too soon and lost confidence. It's also no secret that his neighbor and friend was Gio Reyna who was a youth team monster and scored as high as 13 goals in a game. Regardless, Berhalter has a special talent for ball placement and hopefully he can bring it all out this tournament.
     
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  19. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I've been fairly critical of Adams in these match-ups and overall recently. I do agree that many in the US fanbase seem to give him a blanket pass on any mistakes without acknowledging them -- while some other players are terrible because of a turnover or two, there seems to be an omerta over even mentioning Tyler's.

    And he's not prime Kante, of course. But he's our best defensive midfielder, even if he seems like he's carrying an injury or lost a step or whatever. It's not close, either -- I am one of Roldan's bigger supporters here but he's not in Tyler's class defensively. Neither is McKennie or Tillman or Morris or Tessman or Musah or whomever else you want to mention. Neither is Cardoso, IMO, though I know some will argue.

    I also get a bit frustrated that in the analysis of games, the better players get exempted for mistakes and the responsibilities passed onto anyone perceived as worse, whether or not they actually committed an error or not.

    That all said ...

    I think you're probably beginning to enter Excellency-and-McKennie territory here with this. I'm sure Tyler wants to be captain, but this seems manufactured here.
     
  20. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Sebastian is a vastly better offensive player than Kellyn. Weirdly, Kellyn had some of the long distance ball striking that Berhalter has, but he never gained any sort of consistency on accuracy. He just didn't improve offensively as he aged.

    I don't know if he got hurt or if he just aged quickly, but his defense, which was always very athleticism-dependent, faded in MLS once he hit his mid-20s.

    It's too bad. While I never thought he had the potential some had -- his ball control was never good enough that improvement would make him great -- he was one of my favorite players of that era.
     
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  21. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
  22. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you watch and did deeper into Seb's game you will see that a significant chunk of his offense comes from set pieces and a significant chunk of that comes from the fact that Brian White is one of the best offensive headers of the ball in MLS.

    Seb's stats are high because of all the set pieces he takes for Vancouver and they have Brian White who is great in the box on set pieces. At the next level Seb does not project as an effective CM; too small, not press resistant, not a good defender/ball winner, not effective off the dribble or 1v1, can't create his own shot, below average touch. His best bet at the next level may be where he started his career which is at RB.

    Seb should get minutes at this WC and will be very visable in the shop window. We will see how he does at the next level.
     
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  23. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Expectations are individual. Adams, who is not 100% fit, exceeded my expectations which was to actively engage in a lot of duel (14) and to make a lot of tackles (9). At least one of those tackles resulted in the transition attack which created one of our best chances in the match.

    There is too much focus on events surrounding goals, the vast majority of the match does not involve goals.
     
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  24. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I watched it another dozen time just now. Tillman does need to be tighter on Musiala (he was very slow to react to Musiala moving away from goal to receive a pass). But I disagree with you about Adams' responsibility in this goal. He was marking space at the corner of the box and failed to even think about following Sane on the play. I think these two players were the most at-fault for the 2nd goal. Tillman allowed an easy pass in to Havertz, and Adams didn't follow Sane's run.
     
  25. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #75 tomásbernal, Jun 9, 2026
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2026
    Berhalter is averaging an 8.01 rating this season in MLS. I've never seen an American hit that mark on fotmob as an average. I've seen 7.5/6/7 recently among Americans in various leagues--these are the players that everyone thinks is ready to move up a level--but 8 is an insanely high number. Only Messi and Hugo Cuypers are ahead of Berhalter in MLS this season by fotmob average.
     
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