US-Cuba, the Bruce (R)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by superdave, Jul 8, 2005.

  1. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I liked his subs. Sanneh is way, way, way, too slow to play in a 3 man backline, ESPECIALLY next to Conrad (no speed merchant) and Hejduk playing an unfamiliar role. Terrible, terrible decision, I'll bet we all spotted that as a potential problem and mistake in the opening lineups, and his man scored the goal. The last place Crew, for God sakes, have two better central defenders.

    I give Bruce credit for our success on 2nd balls...we won a ton of them.

    Bruce again is trying to play DMB in the middle. I don't like it. Yeah, a goal and two assists, but outside of that, he was AWFUL. (Yes, I know how stupid what I just wrote sounds.)

    My big beef is, OK, I get that we're not taking the Gold Cup very seriously. But if we're not taking it seriously, let's not take it seriously with Chad Marshall instead of Sanneh, or with Pete Vagenas or Daniel Hernandez or Michael Bradley or Brian Carroll or Clyde Simms (is this tedious yet?), instead of Chris Armas.
     
  2. wcgcapone

    wcgcapone Member

    Feb 6, 2001
    Denver, CO, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bruce was terrible. From formation to starting 11 choices, he didn't get anything right but the subs. This further cements in my mind that Bruce is the luckiest man on earth, certainly not the best coach.
     
  3. SpencerNY

    SpencerNY Member+

    Dec 1, 2001
    Up in the skyway

    This is the first, and will probably be the best post of this thread. I couldn't agree more.
     
  4. SpencerNY

    SpencerNY Member+

    Dec 1, 2001
    Up in the skyway
    Actually, I thought Bruce did a good job on picking Santino. He didn't look completely lost other debutees have in their first games. It seems like with a few games he will become a dangerous playmaker.
     
  5. purojogo

    purojogo Member

    Sep 23, 2001
    US/Peru home
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pretty much the only positive... Giving him credit on getting second balls? Give the credit where it belongs: tired Cuban players down a man who are not even professional enough in many instances to hold up physically.... Yeah, Bruce deserve credit for this :rolleyes: ... Por favor! :)
     
  6. mbar

    mbar Member+

    Apr 30, 1999
    Los Angeles, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Spot on post but trust me...Vagenas is not worthy.
     
  7. RevsRule

    RevsRule Member+

    NE Revs, LAFC
    Jun 9, 1999
    N. Eastern, Mass
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Poor lineup put us in trouble for most of this game. In time, only the score will be remembered but we almost blew this one and it was the lineup that was the fault.

    I wish he'd work new players in with an established team a little at a time. Not throw together large numbers of new people and people on their last try on the field at the same time.

    Everyone will slam Casey but the fact is he got about one good pass all night and got hacked on the shot. I want to see him in with the group that finished the game (less Wolff) and then see what he can do. If he muffs a bunch of chances or gets the ball and does nothing, then we can say he's done but he still hasn't got to run with the "A" team yet so we really don't know what he can do.
     
  8. Captain10

    Captain10 Member

    Jul 26, 2000
    Marietta, GA
    Club:
    Corinthians Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Poor coaching and a lack of respect for our opponent. Luckily, the subs were able to come in and put some shots away. Arena should concentrate on having Dempsey, Donovan, and Beasley working together for the rest of the tournament. And he should give Sanneh his gold watch, pat him on his back, and NEVER play him in a game again...
     
  9. SpencerNY

    SpencerNY Member+

    Dec 1, 2001
    Up in the skyway
    uh no, casey wasn't hacked or even touched on that ball into the box that he should have headed into the goal but instead let the keeper come out and catch it.
     
  10. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh come on, he let these guys sink or swim. Some sunk, some swam. Like anyone expected differently.

    Cuba was always going to bunker and scoring was always going to be difficult. But I imagine Bruce new he'd be able to put on Donovan, Wolff, and O'Brien against a tired defense.

    If you had a hard time watching this, I suggest you stop watching the tournament.
     
  11. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Before we tear into Bruce for his lineup, consider that most of BigSoccer has been demanding that he experiment more. He did exactly that. His usual policy has been to work new players in slowly, and one or two at a time, but a number of people on BigSoccer public were criticizing him for being too slow about it, and not using enough new players at a time. Now that he's done exactly what we wanted him to do, and demonstrated that it doesn't work, are we to get all over him for that?

    Keep this in mind:

    * He put the three least experienced players in his squad in the starting eleven. Quaranta showed that he could compete, at least at CONCACAF level; Davis and Conrad didn't do as well, but I would still like to see both of them get another game or two before passing judgment.

    * He tried Beasley in the middle, which I think was a worthwhile experiment even though it obviously didn't work out. It would be nice to find a good way to get both Beasley and Lewis on the field.

    * As much as we're all criticizing Conor Casey now, wasn't this board clamoring for Bruce to give him another chance just 24 hours ago?


    On the other hand... is it just me, or did it look like we were playing a 3-6-1?
     
  12. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bruce did a good job confusion Cuba with that line up..and maybe some of the players. The formation didn't bother me, but in hind sight I think it was just too many new faces in unfamiler positions at once and a new formation. Still thats what these games are for, otherwise every country would have brought their best first 11.

    Bruce is going to have to mix it up a between the regulars and the rookies in the future games.

    I enjoyed the tribute to Steve Sampson at the end of the game as the Bruce showed him how a 3-6-1 should work.
     
  13. blech

    blech Member+

    Jun 24, 2002
    California
    you can't judge the lineup decisions for this game without taking into account the fact that we play again on saturday. it's fair to ask why ask x, y, or z are here at all, but you can't expect our top 11 to play all of these games (even if there were any consensus on who those 11 are).

    he may have been wondering himself if he had experimented too much, i think any analysis needs to wait until we see what his strategy is for the entire first round of pool play and beyond. as it is, Landon is more rested, and JOB got to break himself in slowly, both of which are positive in my book, as was letting Dempsey finally have a full game to run himself crazy

    as for 3 in the back, Cuba packed it in as expected, so that's a decent decision and i suppose we can now pass judgment on Sanneh, but i seriously question questioning bruce about giving him this chance, in this game. let's hold off on the questions unless Bruce continues to stick with him for the next 12 months ala Agoos.

    point is, even though they waited until the 85th minute or so, it all worked out and there is no need to panic. let's evaluate how Bruce does in the "tournament" after the tournament, not after one game.
     
  14. blech

    blech Member+

    Jun 24, 2002
    California
    ps: i realize patience is not the BigSoccer way....
     
  15. Nadir

    Nadir New Member

    Mar 29, 2005
    Campbell, CA
    What bugs me a little bit about Arena is his insistence to stick with players that are clearly past their prime and instead of looking at younger talent that may be able to be tested at the National Team level he looks to certain players to try and regain the form that made them heroes in the past.

    This team is a mix of both types of players - Arena gets credit for bringing Quaranta, Davis and Conrad to see what they have to offer. But he certainly gets no credit for continuing to stick with Sanneh, Armas and maybe Olsen.

    Casey is a different category - a player that has done nothing in the past yet continues to get called up.

    I don't think Heyduk is completely finished as a National Team player like some folks.

    I think Arena's experimental tactics were a disaster. I think he did not give the Cuban's the respect they obviously deserved. LD saved the match but until then our tactics, player selection and team chemistry were adding up to one of the lamest National Team showings in a while. Given where Lavolpe has the Mexicans today, let's hope today's match was an aberration.
     
  16. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    This has more to do with people management than with Xs and Os. He got the old timers there to fill in against a fairly week Cuba team (although Elo has them at a respectable 56, ahead of Guatemala at 71 and well ahead of Panama at 82) and he'll play the "A-" line-up toward the end of the tournament. The old guys get a chance to ride into the sunset, eliminating themselves from the WC spots by their play. After the quals are over - at least mathematically - he'll bring in players in Quaranta's age group.

    But right now, they have an MLS season to play.
     
  17. mickhayafe

    mickhayafe New Member

    Jun 4, 2002
    Bakersfield, CA
    well, this is the first time I've seen BA throw out a bunch of new players like that, but i hope he won't do it again. I was grinding my teeth most of the game
     
  18. XYZ1234

    XYZ1234 New Member

    Oct 26, 2002
    I disagree.

    Sanneh just doesn't belong on this team. He should have already eliminated himself by his play. He played poorly against Jamaica last November, he's played poorly in MLS, and it was no surprise that he played poorly tonight. This guy isn't going to help in qualifying or in 06, bring Marshall in.

    Sanneh did a lot for the Nats in the past, but Bruce, let it go.

    I just hope Arena can get over this tendency before he names his roster for the world Cup.
     
  19. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What do you guys think the objectives of this game were? To maximize the win?

    No, I think there were two objectives.

    First, to get the points, regardless of style. I agree that his tactics, mainly playing Beasley inside, hindered that goal. However, even without the subs, this group had the better of the game and would have won against the Cuban bunker on most days. And Arena had subs avaialbe if needed.

    Second, to evaluate players. This includes new players -- Davis, Quarenta and Conrad -- and older players - Sanneh, Armas and Olsen. It includes the bad -- Davis, Sanneh and Armas -- and the decent -- Quarenta and Conrad. The objective is to learn, even if the information is negative.
     
  20. diablodelsol

    diablodelsol Member+

    Jan 10, 2001
    North Ridgeville, OH
    While I understand, here's my problem with that approach as it relates to Sanneh. Instead of watching any of his last 30 or so professional games in which it was blatanly obvious that Sanneh was past the international sell by date, Arena wastes a roster spot and potentially 6 international games bringing in this retread.
     
  21. StillKickin

    StillKickin Member+

    Dec 17, 2002
    Texas
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bravo to Bruce for trying what he did. He took a chance. I'm sure he learned a lot.

    Hopefully he learned Sanneh is done.
     
  22. OutKast3000

    OutKast3000 New Member

    Jan 7, 2004
    I'd rather see the Bruce getting some of the younger MLS'ers some experience than playing the old geezers (Sanneh, Armas, Olsen, etc.). Heck - I watche the game and didn't even realize that Armas was on the field until midway through the second half!!!

    I just don't understand why Bruce isn't building the talent pool for Germany next summer......does anybody honestly think that Olsen, Armas, Sanneh are going to be along for the ride? On the reverse side of that coin......it'd be great to see the likes of Clint Dempsey, Eddie Johnson, Chad Marshall get another years worth or experience before a WC. I feel that our younger talent just isn't ready for the big boys either. It is a double edged sword!
    With that said, I do not envy some of the choices that the Bruce has to make in the next 11 months. It will be a tough balancing act.
     
  23. SamsArmySam

    SamsArmySam Member+

    Apr 13, 2001
    Minneapolis, MN
    Agreed. Arena was on record (US Soccer podcast) before the tournament saying his primary objective was to prepare for the upcoming qualifiers, which is very different than preparing the roster for Germany 2006.

    In terms of Sanneh in particular, I don't recall nearly as much vocal support against him before the game as I see after. I'm not picking on anyone in particular, just thinking back to the quantity of posts. I would guess that, before yesterday, Bruce saw Sanneh as someone who could potentially be a calm vet presence in central defense in the remaining away qualifiers (but probably not go to Germany), and he wanted to test that theory.

    Last point on Arena. Having Donovan watch for the first 80 minutes might have been a nice move. It helps Donovan see how hungry he is to be on the field, and might give him a different perspective on how he can contribute to the attack. Just look at Donovan's quotes after the game to see the impact it had on him.

    And FWIW, I wouldn't call it mind games. This was more subtle. I don't think anyone, including Donovan, really doubts that he will start in the qualifiers and in Germany. But even so, the bench certainly gives you a different perspective on a match and a different mindset.
     
  24. Shibb

    Shibb Member

    Feb 22, 2005
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're missing the point here on Sanneh. He's not giving Sanneh a chance, he's using his horrible play to build a case for Bobby Convey on the backline.

    :)

    Seriously, I caught mostly just the second half last night. It was tough with the Spanish, picture quality, and my relatively small TV to tell who was who sometimes. Did Gooch play at all? I'd probably take Marvell Wynne over Tony Sanneh at this point, not that I think he's actually ready for full team duty. Just about anyone else. And I'd really prefer to see a "youth movement" in this tournament, mixed in with solid, younger veterans.
     
  25. purojogo

    purojogo Member

    Sep 23, 2001
    US/Peru home
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Experiment more with players? Yes....BUt more with those that have some upside (ie young) ... I don't see many people complaining about Dempsey, Davis (other than on his play last night, but not about his callup)... But you've seen plenty of criticism (mine included) on why Armas, Sanneh, Olsen , Vanney should be out of the picture by now... and that was when we found out about the roster... not like we just made stuff up just now....
    Connor Casey? Many here do not want to give him further chances... He's had enough.... And again , this opinion was given prior to the start of GC....by more than a few posters...
     

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