US - Cuba; player ratings [R]

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by uniteo, Jul 8, 2005.

  1. John L

    John L Member+

    Sep 20, 2003
    Alexandria, VA
    2 - Beasely, Sanneh, Davis, Casey - Just horrid games from these guys - Most of these guys are veterans and supposedly first team Nats and shoulda been real leaders out there - But they were the biggest weaknesses

    5 - Olsen & Armas - yeah - they didn't seem to mesh well & got in each other's way - And Hahnemann - OK - Goal wasn't his fault but this was his time to come up with a monster save and didn't - Maybe needs another game or two for more complete evaluation - And Conrad - just OK - Nothing horrible but nothing great either - And Dempsey - Good goal but not comparable to JarJar Binks

    6 - Hejduk - A fairly decent game - Did what he had to do on Defense and put pressure on Offense

    7 - Quaranta, Donovan - Santino's still a great forward that coaches always put out of position on the wing because they think somebody else is a better forward but they still include Santino becuause he's one of the best 11 - Yet he does well out there because of his distribution and accurate short passing in tight spaces - Something the left side sadly lacked - And Donovan rises to the occassion for the Nats yet again - He just needs to play like this more consistenly for his club - (Bayern Leverkeusen that is)
     
  2. russ bolshevik

    russ bolshevik Red Card

    Sep 30, 2004
    midnight in moscow
    That's why you layin on your back lookin at the roof of the church
    Preacher tellin the truth & it hurts
     
  3. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Yeah right. Kicker would give him a 4.5 like always.
     
  4. John L

    John L Member+

    Sep 20, 2003
    Alexandria, VA
    Re: US - Cuba; player ratings [R] - TEAM RATING

    As badly as the US team did last night (and NO a 4-1 victory of Cuba with 2 mop -up goals in stoppage time is NOT a good game) and as badly as 4 players did play (Beasely, Sanneh, Davis & Casey), I still think that if they played and started a 2nd and esp 3rd game together, they would end up playing much, much better - A lot of this misplay was due to not being familiar with each other and some players who did mediocre being out of position

    Armas and Olsen were particularly out of synch with each other but they've NEVER PLAYED TOGETHER EITHER - And Olsen was out of position - He's NOT an Inside Midfielder, he's an OUTSIDE Midfielder - And Beasely needs to stay out on the Wing and get forgotten by the opposing Defense - Then he'll burn them - But by putting him into an already crowded middle plus the compacted Cuba Defense, he just plain svcked

    And the more they play together as a unit, the better the understanding will come for the short passing game near the opponents goal - We were nearly clicking last night, but often some players seemed surprised that the ball got through to them (but right under their feet or just behind them) and weren't ready to adjust quickly

    A really frustrating game to watch - But I still saw glimmers of hope for better play from these guys - I think it would be a good idea to test most of them again as starters against Canada
     
  5. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it is unfair to rate the players for the miscarriage of formation/tactics Arena initally put them out there with. After Beasley moved centrally and Dempsey went up further, the US started to put on pressure and we clearly would have won the game 11v11 even with the ridiculously half-skilled group of Armas, Olsen, Sanneh, Hejduk, Conrad. It is quite the thought that Hejduk is the most skilled of those 5 players!

    Once Beasley moved centrally he did fine. It's not his club position or usual Nats position, but he settled everything down and actually allowed us to pass the ball through (rather than over) midfield. He has clearly become a better player from being at PSV. We would have scored more quickly, of course, with better options that Casey and Davis out there, but dempsey eventually scored from a wonderful pass, and only the most skeptical would think we wouldn't put another away against a very bad team, even with our bad team.

    Quaranta was given a lot of room in the second half when Cuba was down a player and he did fine with it up until he was asked to pass or shoot. Potential is nice, but if we are starting players based on potential, let's call up Adu and Feilhaber. Also, it is very important to note that Q was not forced to play much D, which is an important part of the position in Arena's system. At least he didn't show that he didn't belong, but he didn't show enough against a 10 man Cuba to earn a roster spot.

    Dempsey was again good at getting into dangerous positions, and he combined well with our two key players, DMB and LD, late in the game. Maybe all those who thought he should play up top are going to end up being spot-on. As before, he struggled when asked to run things from the middle - which was why Bruce must have made the early switch.
     
  6. Fire-Chop

    Fire-Chop New Member

    Jun 8, 2004
    Actaully, I did not like Casey's performance, I just said that it was not as bad as some on here seemed to think.

    Sure, DMB did a poor job with Hejduk's poor clearance, but with plenty of time to make a good decision and stay in his position, Hejduk chose to run straight at the attacker and got beat. I wonder why the Frankie apologists can not see that.

    Sure some of his crosses were good, several were not. He is far from our best crosser from that position.
     
  7. adi21

    adi21 Member

    The ones that have Americans starting
    United States
    Mar 17, 2001
    Maryland
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cant disagree much with your ratings ;) ,except Conrad was a 5.5
    I would say that DMB was piss poor for 80' ,but then showed that hes one of our best 1 vs 1 with the goalie
     
  8. wcharriscpa

    wcharriscpa Member

    Arsenal FC
    Dec 26, 2000
    Austin
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess I'm going to have to go back and re-watch this match, because I simply did not come away with the same impression of Quaranta's performance that others seem to have. I have nothing against the guy, and I was genuinely curious to see what type of game he would have.

    I do not recall him being involved in any of the scoring opportunities or even threats. He was dispossessed, tackled off the ball, made bad giveaways. And his crosses? Oh, my goodness. I thought he did a good job of getting down the sideline at times, but then his work was ruined by crosses over everyone's head and out for goal kicks!

    He clearly has some good skills, and appears to have a great touch at times. But to me, that only counts in discussions of his "potential." If we're going to analyze his performance in the game - his actual touches and impact on the game - I simply can't fathom ranking him equal with Donovan. Not even close.

    But like I said, I'll re-watch the game. Maybe I'm completely off on this one.
     
  9. adi21

    adi21 Member

    The ones that have Americans starting
    United States
    Mar 17, 2001
    Maryland
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Take your Rev colored glasses off & count how many sitters Clint missed (4 or 5) :p
     
  10. Rei de Boston

    Rei de Boston New Member

    Mar 16, 2004
    I agree that Casey never plays up to the level we all want but Wolff is almost as bad in my opinion. Also that header was not a header. THe Goalie reached around and punched the ball clear and almost into his own net. Wolff never touched it.
     
  11. adi21

    adi21 Member

    The ones that have Americans starting
    United States
    Mar 17, 2001
    Maryland
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LMAO :D :D
     
  12. smock7

    smock7 Member

    Aug 4, 2004
    New York City

    I think what you will see are some nice vision in his hooking up with DMB/Olsen/Hejduk along the right side. He had some nice subtle touches, looked forward, and held the ball nicely at point (which anyone else in the midfield was afraid to do). He only really came apart closer to the box, which I attribute more to his inexperience, but at least he was looking towards the goal on the field. He wasn't as wayward as Davis or Conrad were in their respective debuts. Compared to vets like Armas and Sanneh, he at least looked like he had played soccer a few times in his life. I think he deserves another look at a roster spot.
     
  13. mathiaslg

    mathiaslg New Member

    Mar 13, 2004
    This was a weak starting 11, and it should have surprised no one that they looked less than stellar.

    Sanneh was, by far, the worst player on the pitch--if not for both sides, than easily for ours. 2 out of 10.

    Chris "Back Pass" Armas wasn't at Sanneh's level, but he wasn't all that good either. The same was true for Conor Casey and, to a lesser extent, Ben Olsen. 4 out of 10.

    Beasley had a poor first half, though he did pick it up in the second. I thought Davis was nothing more than average. The same is true for Hahneman, Hejduk and Conrad. 5 out of 10.

    Quaranta and Dempsey were probably the two best players from the first 11. 7 out of 10.

    Donovan and JOB picked up the level of play a great deal, and showed why they should start when healthy. Wolff didn't do all that much other than look constipated when the Cuban GK almost punched the ball into his own net.

    In the end, I think it showed that Armas and Sanneh are done with the Nats. They have had their time, but that is long since past.

    Casey and Olsen might be ok against CONCACAF opposition, but against the best, they will lose out.

    Davis has a long way to go--and might never get there.

    Conrad won't be getting all that much better (though he certainly would have an easier time were he not having to prop up Sanneh) and Hejduk is, well, Heydude.

    This was not Beasley's finest match, but I am not so concerned about that.

    Hahneman really had nothing to do, but will never be a start anyhow.

    Quaranta was interesting, and should definitely be called up again (and play more in this Tourney).
     
  14. stinky

    stinky Member

    May 14, 2000
    Long Beach, NY


    i was a bit surprised of the rating santino got on this thread. i thought he sucked.

    his corners were horrible...his touch was no good and yes, he controlled the ball when no one was around him. he choked a lot.

    what baffles me is these scores should all be weighted based on our opponent...which was no world power. no player should receive higher then a 5, except donovan. who played to his ability. no one else did.

    i honestly hope sanneh, armas, olsen and santino never put on the US jersey again. and i was a huge fan of olsen.

    the only player imo that impressed me for future duty is dempsey who was twice the player santino was.
     
  15. Tony in Quakeland

    Jan 27, 2003
    Pleasant Hill, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm with the concensus here on most of the players. The two getting the most varied opinions seem to be Quaranta and Davis. I sort of split the difference on Quaranta. I think he had some moments and was active. He may have done better in the spot Casey was used. As for Davis, I think he did reasonably well, although nothing fantastic. He had a couple of decent crosses and his best shot was blocked by Jimmy Conrad (his best defensive play of the night).

    As for Sannehh...my only guess is that Bruce Arena has a Che Gruevara shirt under his jersey. How else to explain a three man back line against Cuba with Sanneh in the middle?
     
  16. ForzaViola

    ForzaViola New Member

    May 16, 2005
    Park Ridge, IL
    Random thoughts on the players:

    Hejduk: I know that he was a force in the attack in the second half, but having him on the field reminds of all that is ugly about the old days of the MNT. Bad first touch, shaky passing. But man, can he run. By now, I would have hoped that he would have gone the way of Cobi. We have to have better options...

    Sanneh: This just showed that he is done.

    Quaranta: That kid has class....he is a strong, skilled player. Maybe he tried to over-impress in his first game, but this kid will be a force to be reckoned with in the future. He should be playing in Europe.

    Beasley: He is not the man to control the midfield, not his role. He is a great individual force, but needs solid support. Great game overall.

    Davis: This kid has the look of a real player. Nerves probably got to him. He seems to have a good vision of the game. Watch out for this guy.

    Dempsey: Showed me a lot. Good skills, choked a few times in front of the net. Another one that could be a star in the future.

    Overall, it seemend that these are playing together in a different system for the first time against a team they knew they should beat. Things were not the best until LD came in.

    Let's see what happens after the group play.
     
  17. Northcal19

    Northcal19 New Member

    Feb 18, 2000
    Celtic Tavern LODO (

    Good post. I agree with you re the commie troll.

    Quaranta seems to be the new Bobbie. I watched him and I laughed out loud. Then I see him rated with '8's!! Against CUBA, the US puts on one of the worst halfs ever, and he is among the worst and he gets an '8'? In some other thread a poster was calling him a lock to start on the right side, the answer for next year. He batantly sucked!! Hell, he doesn't play much for DC and they get to see his awesome talents everyday.
     
  18. bing1985

    bing1985 Member

    Jun 14, 2004
    Near West ChiSuburbs
    I'm in general agreement with El Mano Mario - with a few exceptions

    Hahnemann -- 5

    Frankie. -- 5 -- One of his better games, IMO. I still don't think he's our best option...but...

    Conrad -- 5 -- I'll disagree with EMM's "3" - For his first effort, not terrible. Settled in in the second half, won some balls nicely and showed some poise.

    Sanneh -- 4 -- Stick a fork in this old workhorse - please.

    Armas -- 5 -- nice to have him back. - Agreed - thought he was steady

    Olsen -- 4 -- We have so many good midfielders in the pool. I'd like to see this obsession end. He gave great effort but so little benefit. He's had enough caps to prove himself - let it go Bruce.

    Davis -- 5 -- Worth another look. - Maybe - he looked overmatched at times ...against Cuba... and like I said re: Olsen - We have so many good options in mid, why take on this project?

    Dempsey 6-- Not historically a fan but he's sure growing on me. Our most consistent attacking threat throughout the match. Intelligent player, makes good runs.

    Quaranta -- 2 -- I really can't see why most of you rate this performance so high. He ran alot - big deal. That just meant he fell down in more places. How many touches did he have that wound up wasted. I'm absolutly NOT buying this kid based on last night's performance. Sorry, folks - I thought he was awful.

    DMB -- 5 -- looked tentative and out of form. We've all seen him play better. I'd like to see DMB/Dempsey chemistry like the DMB/LD chemistry we saw in the last five minutes. THAT would be special.

    Casey -- 2 --agreed - why is he here???

    Donovan -- 8 -- hard to give a sub more than an 8, imo. Oh - wasted that ball out of bounds. Is human after all. :D

    JOB -- n/a -- didn't break - didn't factor either way - need to see more

    Wolff -- 5.5 -- had a header that almost went in.. And that one play is worth more than anything Casey has done in 6 games. - Yup
     
  19. SgtSchultz

    SgtSchultz Member

    Jul 11, 2001
    Parts Unknown
    How can anybody rate highly after last night's game is beyond me. Santino had room to operate like the rest of the team. He had a hard time breaking Cuba's defense. Was he horrible? No, but he was neither good. Remember, this is Cuba, not Costa Rica.

    Sanneh, Casey and Olsen were crap. Hejduk was not as bad as potrayed on these boards. He did not do his patented step-over move and even tried to nutmeg a Cuban in the box.
     
  20. soccertom

    soccertom New Member

    Jun 2, 1999
    I watched the game twice.

    I read the BigSoccer in game first half and second half Threads and I just read this Thread. I question whether many posters watched the game because there is an incredible amount of dumb posting going on. Hey wait a minute. Oh yeah this is the US Men's News and Analysis Forum. Slaps self in the head...

    Hahnemann: 4.5 - Marcus wasn't really tested other than the goal which he should have kicked away. The shot actually hit off his shin. I'm pretty certain that Keller and several other US Keepers would make that save. I'm not down on Marcus just an observation. His distribution was fine.

    Frankie: 5.5 - Great work rate as usual. Was partly to blame for the Cuba goal. His fitness and foray into the Cuba Box sparked the US in the second half.

    Conrad: 5.5 - Jimmy started a little shaky with some giveaways and poor distribution. I thought he defended very well for the most part and was forced to bail out Sanneh on several occasions.

    Sanneh: 2 - Two is the lowest I have ever rated a player. I thought Sanneh BEGAN the game looking like he had Lou Gehrig's disease. Just an awful performance by a DEAD CAT. What was he doing on the Cuba Goal? It was his mark that scored. Sanneh had time to retreat and get to his man yet he inexplicably lifted his leg in a very awkward looking defensive maneuver and looked just plain silly doing it. Sanneh was pretty awful all night with the exception of a couple of good crosses.

    Quaranta: 5 - He started poorly but improved and had some nice moments with several good crosses and corner kicks. He had a wonderful 70th minute or so shot at net that forced the best save of the night from the Cuban Keeper if that is what you want to call the gut they had in goal. Santino really was gassed at the end and muffed several great opportunities in the box late.

    Olsen: 4 - S-L-O-W. Sacrificed his body in an effort to make up for his lack of quickness. Worked his ass off. Poor distribution. Good luck to Ben in MLS.

    Armas: 4.5 - Worked hard as always. Good positioning. Solid as always in the tackle. Poor as always in the attack. I think we have seen this before. Good luck to Chris with the Fire.

    Davis: 6.5 - Played wonderfully. Very poised on the ball and only gave up possession in the run of play once or twice that I can recall. Davis had the ALS Diseased Sanneh playing behind him which must have been very unnerving for the lad. Brad was involved in almost every first half attack. Davis supplied 6 or 7 excellent crosses including 2 to Dempsey that could have should have been goals. Those first half shots by Davis loosened up the Cuban defense and kept them honest. Combined very well with Dempsey all night.

    Dempsey: 7 Worked his ass off all night. Great run into the box on the first goal. Dempsey was active all night and was a terror in the box. Dempsey makes intelligent runs and understands where and when to make penetrating runs at the defense. Sure he missed some sitters but I would much rather have a player getting and creating chances than one that was invisible. See Casey, Coner for invisible.

    Casey: 3 - Big Dumb and Slow is no way to go through life Son. OK maybe I'm wrong about the dumb part. Really what was Casey doing out there. Completely ineffective OTHER than his final touch on Quaranta's ripping shot on which Coner was injured which brought on Landon.

    DMB: 5.5 - Awful first half other than the real nice chip to Dempsey on the goal. DeMarcus must have lost possession 6 or 7 times in the first half alone. Of course DMB brings speed which kills the opposition. Beasley was involved in the Cuba goal as it was his missed tackle that sent the Cuban attacker free on the wing. DMB finished his chance very well and also laid a beautiful touch to Landon on the 4th goal but let's face it the Cuban defense was TOAST by then. All in all a pretty poor game from a very exciting player. Without the goal and assists DMB barely rates a 4 in the game.

    JOB: Incomplete - Great to see JOB back on the pitch in a US uniform. Did he touch the ball? Yeah he did. 3 or 4 times with one or two good passes.

    LD: 8 - Terrific Free Kick for the goal. Awesome!! Again Cuba was gassed at the end and Landon made them pay with his skill and speed. Thank goodness Casey needed a sub. I mean no ill will towards Coner and I hope his injury is slight.

    Wolff: 4 - Wasn't really involved during his time on the field. I like Josh and think he has a role but in this game other than the corner cross he was invisible.
     
  21. Dr Jay

    Dr Jay BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 7, 1999
    Newton, MA USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    No. He only missed one sitter (the cross he slid into and somehow put over the bar from about two feet off the goal line). He missed two others that I would consider half chances (the near post shot he put into the outside netting and a second far post run he fanned on). At least he was getting himself into dangerous positions where goals could have been scored. Look at the performances of the two starting forwards and try to recall how many scoring chances or half chances they had ? And, if you want to talk about missed opportunities, lets discuss Quaranta.
     
  22. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not a sitter. First of all, on a good ball that kind of lunge is difficult to get in the net, but that ball was served in the air and took a bounce on its way in and so was airborn when Dempsey got his foot to it (or under it as it turned out).
     
  23. ScissorsKick

    ScissorsKick Member

    Jan 12, 2005
    VA
    I assume we are all grading on a curve here.
     
  24. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That wasn't Dempsey, that was Quaranta. The cameraman kept showing Dempsey afterward, but it was not him.
     
  25. akalavelle

    akalavelle New Member

    Aug 19, 2004
    Seattle
    My 2 cents from the stands:

    Frankie. -- 4 for his play, 7 for his attitude. I'm no Frankie fan, and I'm not usually big on someone who only brings 'attitude' to the game, but without him the pre sub team would not have had any pulse whatsoever. He worked the ref and he had fire, if he could only play defense...

    Sanneh -- 2 -- He looked heavy, slow, and without concentration -- like Vin Baker in cleats.

    Armas -- 6 -- I thought he played a decent game. Didn't make any glaring mistakes and seemed solid.

    Dempsey 6 -- He scored, but... He should get time in every game of this tournament. He's a little bit more experience away from being very very good.

    DMB -- 5 -- He set up 3 of the goals, 2 for us. He proved that he's an important piece of the puzzle, but probably not an interchangeable piece.

    Bruce -- 6 -- He ran out a random group, learned/confirmed something about most of them, and won the game. We can nit-pick about this choice or that choice (or that choice or that choice) but I don't think plugging in one or two other non-first/second teamers changes much. We're not that deep.

    Quest (the field) -- 4 (and going down fast) -- The trucked in grass just doesn't cut it. Totally inconsistent, large divots, it just sucked. It's raining here and by the time we get to the second game tomorrow it's going to be an even bigger mess. Watch out.

    Quest (the fans) -- (-1) -- Not sure how it looked on TV, but it was tomb until the last 5 min. The moment of the night for me was when a small group of fans in Mexico jerseys sitting behind a giant Mexican flag tried to get a “U.S.A.” chant going (not in jest) and no one joined in. The biggest disappointment.
     

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