Well, it is pretty public by now that the young stars of the NT wanted Roman out of the NT. And Diego had made his decision to support "Argentina's saviour- the next Maradona of the 2ks". Roman learned this and quit, arguing he doesn't follow the same codes as the coach. The codes are not for saying to the public his form, if he can dribble an adversary with his form ... or if he comes way to deep back to be effective. It is because Roman learned that he was going to be erased from the team because Maradona's son-in-law and Messi didn't like him. The same two kids that started the "sabotage" of Basile. (Locker room situation: "Can you take your earphones off when I'm talking?" ... "What can you teach me *old man reference*) Diego proposed himself to be the coach while at the OGs. Grondona listened to him ... but right after that all the Bilardist media (at this point the most influential and powerful) starting to "work" for the '86 guys. Why is this relevant ... because Roman learned that not only Diego was going to clean him following the kid's petition, but that Diego had started his campaign to take over the NT, while Basile was still coach. Diego and Bilardo gave two lousy excuses to not take Roman to Scotland and France, the first two friendlies under Diego. The back and forth was VERY obvious, and had no explanation. They were indeed trying to piss off Roman, because both of them know that he doesn't let flies swim in his soup. Sources? More than enuff. But until Roman or Basile speak up, all of this will be in the dark. But they won't speak up. They'd rather have you believe what ever you come up with ... because speaking of what happens inside a dressing room is indeed still sacred for some. For now ... check out minute 12 here: http://vipfootball.podomatic.com/player/web/2009-10-13T09_42_53-07_00, but it would be worth it to find someone translate you the entire conversation. .
It is isn't it? Messi has just plain been under-performing. Considering he is the #10 and the worlds best player I would say that he's definitely been one of our worst. Why lower the bar for him? The coach, the system the call-ups, all those excuses only carry so much weight, at what point does his natural talent and desire overcome what he has to work with? When he goes missing, he really leaves the team playing like they are a man down. Riquelme was never this bad for the national team. I'm going to ask you a question. Based on his role on the team why shouldn't he be subbed? He's scored a whopping four goals and at best two assists while playing twice as many minutes as any other attacking player. Is that what the best attacking player does? He hasn't produced plain and simple. I'm not sure what it is you are seeing but what has he created offensively? Aside from giving the ball to Veron who created Bolatti's chance what has Messi brought down the home stretch of these qualifiers?
You've answered all my queries & I've no doubt learned a thing or two - my knowledge, as I mentioned, won't compare to the Argentinos on these boards. I find myself in agreement with all your answers & am beginning to see/learn more & due to this have a greater understanding of the whole Riquelme debacle. For this reason I've only quoted the above, which proved to be very insightful for me, getting the Argentine perspective of Messi's achievements. Prior to this I could only speculate on how Leo was viewed, how any player "hype" was recieved by the Argentine public. This weekend so far I've watched Zarate, Tevez, Crespo, Rodrigo Palacio (another I forgot about), Higuain & one Leo Messi. For the record, he had a poor game away to Valencia. Barca got the draw but as a team they were disappointing. Various reasons attributed to this could've been International hangover, jetlag (Barca though apparently had Messi put immediately aboard a private jet back to Spain), weakened Barca starting XI, Messi without quality support in attack etc. The intriguing scenario of who Diego will select still lies ahead. The important task of correctly whittling the squad down & getting the right blend could be of massive significance. I think they have to get this right.
As I remarked earlier there to Moishe, I'm being educated on the whole Riquelme situation. My knowlege on it, admittedly, was limited. I wasn't entirely aware of, had no idea to the extent of the mirky politics, positioning, back-stabbing, behind-the-scenes manoeuvring, power struggles & all-round disharmony in the camp & with the powers that be. Reads like a Scorsese/Coppola Mafioso plot! Unfortunately my Spanish is practically non-existant, so I'd definitely be needing a translation of your provided audio clip. Speaking of translations, i still haven't found out what Maradona actually said to the media after the Uruguay match in the now infamous, X-rated backlash at the assembled reporters, journalists etc. Not the 1st time the press hacks have been on the end of a tongue lashing. Bet some of them must've been honoured to get an earful from the great Diego! On a less serious note but still on the topic of translations, have always wanted to know what exactly was being said, though it doesn't take a genius to imagine the verbals at hand, in the legendary video clip of the "gordo" Central Rosario fan goading the Boca away fans. Always makes me laugh even though I don't understand what was being said!
Messi might be Argentina's most skilled player but that does not mean he's effective for the team. We can gather tons of kids from Argentina with similar ball skils but it doesn't mean that they are going to be cohesive for the team. I think something like that is happening with Messi.
You have a point, I think Messi cannot adapt to a 4-4-2 as a support striker. He simply doesn't have the movement to play that role. Saviola type would be better suited.
I think you mean Higuain as the second striker....and not Saviola I don't see why anyone thought Messi would do well. He's best when moving from the outside to the inside.
If you are considered the best player in the world then you need to do well EVERYWHERE, not just Barcelona and in Europe. Clearly, the marketing sham that is SPAIN has been exposed. UNFORTUNATELY, it had to occur to us with Argentina. Messi, I love you kid, but you need to get back to basics and learn to be a team member. Also for those that speak so much about Messi's supposed loyalty to Argentina here are two things. 1. Tocalli in a recent interview mentioned that Messi was steps away from playing for Spain. 2. The kid didn't know the national anthem. (How are you not going to know the National Anthem of your own country?!?!!?!)
um wow i did not know that...i've know the national anthem of argentina my whole life, and i lived there less than he did. i also know the national anthem to america. i mean you have to be a complete idiot to not know a national anthem of your country. COMPLETE IDIOT disrespectful too he should have played for spain their national anthem has no words so he wouldn't have had any trouble
I wouldn't say Spain is a marketing sham, it's a high quality league. How would Tocalli know what country Messi wanted to play for? I'm pretty sure Tocalli didn't coach him at youth levels, and Messi didn't play U17 for Argentina. As for your comments on Messi, it may well be that he played for Argentina due to parents' wishes. Although his fiancee is from Rosario. So who knows.
Jeez, I see people are still persisting with the I'm more nationalistic than you arguament. What next, my dad is bigger than yours? Jesus wept.
at first, i was mad but now i realize it doesn't really matter. i mean if he didn't know the anthem, it doesn't show any disrespect, it just shows that he is spaced out. as for playing for spain, what does "steps" away mean? wasn't higuain "steps" away from playing for france. to be fair, this happens all of over the world. think of how many brazilians play for other countries? to be fair to messi, it would have been much easier to play for spain b/c he was in spain and on their radar. it was much harder for him to be called up to the youth teams, which is why he never played at the U17 level, when had he chose spain, he would have been a fixture in their youth set up from day 1. adebayor wanted to play for nigeria b/c his dad was from there, but i doubt anyone in togo cared when he qualified them for their first world cup. ibrahimovic wanted to play for bosnia too...hes a national hero in sweden. messi never wanted to, he may have been close, but as he was playing in spain, it is no surprise that they would try and persuade him to play for them. his poor performances have nothing to do with his love for argentina, he just hasn't played well and hasn't fit into the system. and even if he didn't know the anthem, or was close to playing for spain, its academic b/c he plays for argentina.
I'm not talking about the league but the newspaper and media. They hype up players and then they end up failing in other places. Tocalli was Pekerman's right hand man for over 10 years. He has very close ties to the Argentina Youth teams which exist to this day. http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/10/17/varios/02020862.html
If you want to be the best in the world, there are pressures that go along with the job. Look at what happened to Maradona. You want to take his throne then you need to grow a pair and toughen up that mental fortitude. So far Lio has proven that he can play well in Europe and nowhere else. He's also helped to prove what we Argentinos have known for so long, that the South American Qualifiers are the most difficult in the world. So now I'm starting to think that maybe Lio doesn't deserve the title.
If he needs to grow a pair or not, you're showing a tendency to eat your own. Arguably your two current best players you've hounded to the breaking point. I don't know how that helps you win a World Cup. It's not just the criticism of the play. You go much further and question patriotism, nationality, masculinity (see above), motivations, and some persecute out of an agenda against European football. What country argues AGAINST their own player winning WPOTY? The two biggest threats to Messi's career so far have been persistent injuries, which seem to have gone away, and now Argentinos who attack him on a deeply personal level. If your criticism of him on a personal level about his lack of caring was true, then it wouldn't bother him. This is an introverted young man.
If he doesn't then who does? This guy? Messi will be fine. He got his goal and an assist against Zaragoza. With a much needed rest he'll get his confidence back.
So he didn't play well in the Olympics or in the Copa America? We're not going to go through this again are we? I seemed to recall you cheering pretty wildly when Argentina won the Olympics. Of course he hasn't performed up to his Barca standards but at least give the kid some credit.
Would you say this to Roman Moishe? We know why he quit the first time, and why he quit the second time as well. Do we really want the same thing to happen to Messi?
I'll always cheer wildly when Argentina wins, that doesn't mean that players are above criticism. He hasn't performed up to Barca standards thats MORE THAN CLEAR. So what's your point? I'm not rehashing anything. You are the one who is bringing this all up.
If you can't deal with the bullshit that entails being a world class player then maybe you need a career change. Come on, there is a certain level of bullshit that the media throws out there and it comes along with the job. GET USED TO IT, you make millions, and thats the reason you make the big money.
What about what you're throwing out there. I'm not saying stop, because it's obviously your honest reaction, but it's not hard to multiply that (unfair, IMO) attitude towards him times many and see the effect on the young guy who could be most influential in trying to win the World Cup.
My point is that you claiming he can only perform in Europe is bullshit. I agree that the players should be criticized but there's a limit. Riquelme got criticized on a constant basis when most of the time he did not deserve it. There only so much a player can take. Even Tevez who we all know is a bulldog spoke out about it.