Ursuline 100 - November edition

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by GersMan, Nov 5, 2002.

  1. GersMan

    GersMan Member

    May 11, 2000
    Indianapolis
    The Best 100 American Players Now

    As always your discussion, constructive criticism and otherwise disagreement is appreciated.

    Goalkeepers (10)
    1. Brad Friedel
    2. Kasey Keller
    3. Tim Howard
    4. Nick Rimando
    5. Adin Brown
    6. Joe Cannon
    7. Kevin Hartman
    8. Johnny Walker
    9. Jon Busch
    10. Marcus Hahnemann

    Defenders (30)
    1. Tony Sanneh
    2. Eddie Pope
    3. Carlos Bocanegra
    4. Steve Cherundolo
    5. Greg Berhalter
    6. Wade Barrett
    7. Frankie Hedjuk
    8. Ryan Suarez
    9. Carlos Llamosa
    10. Corey Gibbs
    11. Greg Vanney
    12. Gooch Onyewu
    13. Steve Jolley
    14. David Regis
    15. Alexi Lalas
    16. Mike Petke
    17. Dan Califf
    18. Jim Curtin
    19. Jeff Agoos
    20. Alex Yi
    21. CJ Brown
    22. Phil Salyer
    23. Rusty Pierce
    24. Chad Marshall
    25. Jim Conrad
    26. Nick Garcia
    27. Chad McCarty
    28. Brian Dunseth
    29. Eric Denton
    30. Jay Heaps

    Attacking (5-hole) Midfielders and Wingers
    1. Landon Donovan
    2. Damarcus Beasley
    3. Eddie Lewis
    4. Bobby Convey
    5. Ben Olsen
    6. Steve Ralston
    7. Ernie Stewart
    8. Chris Henderson
    9. Kyle Martino
    10. Brad Davis
    11. Cobi Jones
    12. Chris Klein
    13, John Thorrington
    14. Mark Chung
    15. Eric Quill


    Central, Holding and Defensive Midfielders (15)
    1. John O'Brien
    2. Claudio Reyna
    3. Pablo Mastroeni
    4. Chris Armas
    5. Brian Maisonneuve
    6. Richard Mulrooney
    7. Kelly Gray
    8. Diego Guttierez
    9. Daniel Hernandez
    10. Ramiro Corrales
    11. Chad Deering
    12. Kerry Zavagnin
    13. Francisco Gomez
    14. Jeff Moore
    15. Richie Williams

    Strikers (20)
    1. Taylor Twellman
    2. Brian McBride
    3. Clint Mathis
    4. Josh Wolff
    5. Conor Casey
    6. Ante Razov
    7. Edson Buddle
    8. Santino Quaranta
    9. Jason Kreis
    10. Jeff Cunningham
    11. Chris Carrieri
    12. Dema Kovalenko
    13. Joe Max Moore
    14, Eddie Johnson
    15. Jovan Kirovski
    16. Mike Magee
    17. Bobby Rhine
    18. Chris Brown
    19. Dante Washington
    20. Freddy Adu

    10 Wildcards (in no order)
    1. Chris Gbandi
    2. Manny Lagos
    3. Antonio Martinez ???
    4. Craig Capano
    5. Nelson Akwari
    6. Devin Barclay
    7. Grover Gibson
    8. David Johnson
    9. Frank Simek
    10. Brian West

    #101 Raul Palomares
    #102 Kyle Beckerman
     
  2. FlashMan

    FlashMan Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    'diego
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    from a quick glance:

    1. I wouldn't have Curtin at #18. Maybe #25 or so.
    2. Cobi should be much higher. His post-WC performance was outstanding. (Below Brad Davis? What?)
    3. I'd have Stewart over Ralston, though I guess Earnie is getting long in the tooth a bit.
    4. By your definition of "Now", Armas shouldn't even be on the list (or Multooney for that matter) and IMHO Hernandez should be about #4 or 5.
    5. Kovalenko above Kirovski? I don't think so...

    All just my silly opinions of course.
     
  3. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Goalkeepers:
    I think Brown has surpassed Rimando and is at about the same level as Howard. Hahnemann should be higher - if we consider Div 1 and MLS to be of similar standard then his clean sheets have to count for something. How good are Spiteri and Warren?

    Defenders:
    Nick Garcia gets shafted again. He's quite a bit more proven than many of the defenders above him - I'd rank him in the 15-20 range. Frankie Hejduk hasn't been playing well in Switzerland at all.

    Attacking Midfielders and Wingers:
    Guillermo Gonzalez (U-17 playmaker) probably deserves to be listed. Mark Chung's age and the fact that he's retired from the national team are a detriment, but if Alexi Lalas is ranked 15th among defenders then Chung should be ranked higher than he is for his MVP candidate season. While Convey has played very well for his age, he's not our 4th-best attacking midfielder.

    Central/Holding/Defensive Midfielders:
    Sasha Victorine is a HUGE omission - I'd put him solidly in the 8-12 range. Gutierrez should drop a few places. At this point I consider Mulrooney an outside back for national team purposes - he played very well at right back in friendlies. I can't believe ABMOD is anywhere near this list. I'd almost rather have Kenny Arena in his position.

    Forwards:
    Dema Kovalenko isn't a US citizen yet - and furthermore he's more of a midfielder/winger than a striker. Has Twellman's stock risen that fast? I'd still rate some of the World Cup strikers ahead of him, at least for the moment. Let's see how he does vs. El Salvador. Drop Casey to the 8-10 range, Magee to 19th, and exchange Moore and Rhine, and you've got it about right.
     
  4. Detective40oz

    Detective40oz Member

    Jun 16, 2000
    Fairfax, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    I believe Edson Buddle belongs above Ante Razov who hasn't shown well in the last agmes of the MLS Season, Buddle was practically the whole Crew Offense.
     
  5. eric515

    eric515 Member

    May 8, 2002
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are we still considering Landon and A-Mid, even though he started almost exclusively up top in WC02?? I think you have him 2nd, McBride, based on WC and MLS performance is still 1st. Mathis is 3rd, and Twellman 4th.

    Brown is 4th for keepers, I would put him above Howard, but Howard has been solid a little bit longer...Cannon 5th. I will just say, everytime I see Rimando (usually only MLS Hit Parade) he is always looking dumbfounded at getting beat by some impossible goal...
     
  6. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No real issues here, though I am with those who believe Brown is at least equal to Howard -- you know a good giant man beats a good big man, all else being equal.

    I think my biggest issues are here. The first five are about right, and I would flip Hejduk over Barrett until proven otherwise. At #10, I start to have some serious isues.

    A. Corey Gibbs should drop somewhere to five to ten spots, as he has a spotty record this year on a spotty second division team. Brian Dunseth, especially, and Chad McCarthy should be moved up the list. Gooch and Chris Gbandi are the same -- studs with ZERO pro experience. Gooch has the Youth experience but Gbandi was a better college player by most accounts.

    B. Califf is too low, given his numerous camps and Olympic experience.

    C. Phil Sayler is terrible and is not even a sure starter in the third division.

    D. Diego Gutierez and Ramiro Corrales should be listed as defenders as they both fit as a wide defender in a 4-4-2 (although they would be wingbacks in a 3-5-2, even though both can play dmid in the center as well).

    Convey should be #9 with Cobi #4, Olsen #5, Stewart #6, Klein #7 (Klein is more of a wingback than a "winger") and Ralston #8. Kyle Martino should be #10. The fact that Brad Davis is not at the "youth" camp is a bad sign for his immediate Nats future.

    How can Leo Cullen not be on this list. I have to concede that he and Daniel Hernandez are ahead of Kelly Gray right now. I think Francisco Gomez belongs on the previous list, if anywhere.

    Razov should be ahead of Casey, who just has not established himself yet at the pro level. Jeff Cunningham also should be higher on the list than at least Quarenta, and certainly Kreis. If Kirovski ever contributes to the Nats, it will be in midfield, not up top.
     
  7. Serie Zed

    Serie Zed Member

    Jul 14, 2000
    Arlington
    Minor point, but Jeff Agoos is not that far down the list. He had a bad WC, it's true, but hadn't put a foot wrong in 18 months prior and was singled out as one of the two or three best defender in MLS by almost all the GMs MLSNet talked to in an article recently.

    In general, I think people here put too much emphasis on who is PLAYING WELL vs their ability. Tony Sanneh #1? Where would he have been prior to the World Cup?

    Great list and discussion though. Will be interesting to see how it evolves over the next 18-24 months.
     
  8. Ringo

    Ringo Member

    Jun 10, 2002
    Rough and Ready
    Club:
    Yeovil Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i'm shocked manny lagos' name is mentioned anywhere on this thread.

    also, i know frankie isn't the most popular player on these boards, but his WC's have been pretty good. perhaps a tad underrated?
     
  9. ojsgillt

    ojsgillt Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Lee's Summit MO
    Francisco Gomez is on the right list but should not be listed at all, and Kerry Zavagnin should be listed a lot higher.
     
  10. Sevin

    Sevin Member

    May 24, 2001
    U.S.
    Freddy Adu #20 on the strikers list? He's gotta be in the top 2 or 3!!
     
  11. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Convey plays in the middle now. I'd put him at #5 on that list...
     
  12. Ringo

    Ringo Member

    Jun 10, 2002
    Rough and Ready
    Club:
    Yeovil Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know, that's why I'm shocked he's on the list. duh.
     
  13. CbR

    CbR Member

    Nov 10, 2000
    Bergen County NJ

    u on crack? we havent seen anything from this guy on a pro-level or senior international level,its all speculations of "ive heard he's the real deal" and "my fathers friend who happens to know a coach in italy said that he's gonna be awsome"

    what has bobby convey done to deserve no.4 besides being young? same goes with coner casey
     
  14. Red Card

    Red Card Member+

    Mar 3, 1999
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why aren't Zack Thorton and Tony Meola listed?
     
  15. Coryattheplex

    Coryattheplex New Member

    Apr 3, 2002
    Ft Wayne, Indiana
    Your list sucks so bad that im going to ned some nyquil and a bottle of pepto bismol to go to sleep tonight..............Cobi, Ante, RICHIE FREAKING WILLIAMS. Be prepared to pay my doctor bills you jerkoff.
     
  16. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Um, I could be wrong, but it may, MAY, possibly beenajoke. Though I could be wrong

    As for Convey...I dunno, watching him play for 3 years, seeing how well he uses space, seeing first touch passing that about 5 or 10 other guys in the league can match, dribbling past 3 defenders at a time. It's tough being the most dangerous player on a team with no other dangerous players.

    Who do you put in front of him in middle?

    O'Brien
    Reyna,
    Mastroeni,
    Armas (who's injured)

    sure

    who else in the middle is clearly better?
     
  17. TexanSoccer06

    TexanSoccer06 New Member

    Hey slapdick, lets see your list.
     
  18. TexanSoccer06

    TexanSoccer06 New Member

    Why compare Convey with these defensive midfielders?
     
  19. TheSlipperyOne

    TheSlipperyOne Member+

    Feb 29, 2000
    Denver
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Because they take up too much space on the list.

    :p
     
  20. Winoman

    Winoman Drinkin' Wine Spo-De-O-De!

    Jul 26, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm surprised that Brandon Prideaux was left off the list for defenders. He should at least be in the top 15, if not the top 10.

    Winoman
     
  21. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Best 100 American Players Now

    As always your discussion, constructive criticism and otherwise disagreement is appreciated.

    Goalkeepers (10)
    1. Brad Friedel
    2. Kasey Keller
    3. Tim Howard
    4. Nick Rimando
    5. Adin Brown
    6. Joe Cannon
    7. Kevin Hartman
    8. Johnny Walker
    9. Jon Busch
    10. Marcus Hahnemann


    No changes.

    Defenders (30)
    1. Tony Sanneh
    2. Eddie Pope
    3. Carlos Bocanegra
    4. Steve Cherundolo
    5. Greg Berhalter
    6. Wade Barrett
    7. Frankie Hedjuk
    8. Ryan Suarez
    9. Carlos Llamosa
    10. Corey Gibbs
    11. Greg Vanney
    12. Gooch Onyewu
    13. Steve Jolley
    14. David Regis
    15. Alexi Lalas
    16. Mike Petke
    17. Dan Califf
    18. Jim Curtin
    19. Jeff Agoos
    20. Alex Yi
    21. CJ Brown
    22. Phil Salyer
    23. Rusty Pierce
    24. Chad Marshall
    25. Jim Conrad
    26. Nick Garcia
    27. Chad McCarty
    28. Brian Dunseth
    29. Eric Denton
    30. Jay Heaps


    Switch Steve Cherundolo and Greg Berhalter. Move Agoos to #10. Remove Jim Conrad and replace with Eddie Robison and move him above Alex Yi. Drop Corey Gibbs after Dan Califf.


    Attacking (5-hole) Midfielders and Wingers
    1. Landon Donovan
    2. Damarcus Beasley
    3. Eddie Lewis
    4. Bobby Convey
    5. Ben Olsen
    6. Steve Ralston
    7. Ernie Stewart
    8. Chris Henderson
    9. Kyle Martino
    10. Brad Davis
    11. Cobi Jones
    12. Chris Klein
    13, John Thorrington
    14. Mark Chung
    15. Eric Quill


    Move Cobi to #3. Swithc Olsen and Ralston. Move Ernie above Ralston.


    Central, Holding and Defensive Midfielders (15)
    1. John O'Brien
    2. Claudio Reyna
    3. Pablo Mastroeni
    4. Chris Armas
    5. Brian Maisonneuve
    6. Richard Mulrooney
    7. Kelly Gray
    8. Diego Guttierez
    9. Daniel Hernandez
    10. Ramiro Corrales
    11. Chad Deering
    12. Kerry Zavagnin
    13. Francisco Gomez
    14. Jeff Moore
    15. Richie Williams


    No changes.


    Strikers (20)
    1. Taylor Twellman
    2. Brian McBride
    3. Clint Mathis
    4. Josh Wolff
    5. Conor Casey
    6. Ante Razov
    7. Edson Buddle
    8. Santino Quaranta
    9. Jason Kreis
    10. Jeff Cunningham
    11. Chris Carrieri
    12. Dema Kovalenko
    13. Joe Max Moore
    14, Eddie Johnson
    15. Jovan Kirovski
    16. Mike Magee
    17. Bobby Rhine
    18. Chris Brown
    19. Dante Washington
    20. Freddy Adu


    Drop Conor from the top 10. Switch Ante and Edson.


    10 Wildcards (in no order)
    1. Chris Gbandi
    2. Manny Lagos
    3. Antonio Martinez ???
    4. Craig Capano
    5. Nelson Akwari
    6. Devin Barclay
    7. Grover Gibson
    8. David Johnson
    9. Frank Simek
    10. Brian West

    #101 Raul Palomares
    #102 Kyle Beckerman


    Drop Manny from wildcard.
     
  22. NSlander

    NSlander Member

    Feb 28, 2000
    LA CA
    Inexplicably, Brandon Prideaux is omited from this list every month. Understandably, posters call attention to this omission. But yet his omision continues, in order to make room for guys like Phil Salyer. It nearly de-legitimizes the entire list.
     
  23. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    WHy is Salyer on the team? HE's having trouble makingthestarting amateur side at Bremen. Meanwhile Whitbred is doing well in the reserves at Liverpool, but doesn't get mentioned. Prideaux has had some very good games.
     
  24. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well the category was "central, holding, and defensive midfielders"

    From what I've seen he's best playing a deeper midfield, linking the defense to the attack, playing in the center of the field.

    He's not so much a withdrawn forward, like Stewart, as someone who can bring the ball from the middle 3rd to the final 3rd and make a pass. His offense comes from making runs out of the middle as often as not.

    Kind of a player who would fit on the spectrum between Reyna and Stewart in terms of where they're most effective.
     
  25. TexanSoccer06

    TexanSoccer06 New Member

    If your gonna take him off, take off Gooch as well who hasn't seen playing time with Metz this season, and he just returned to France from training with Clemson.
     

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