Ironically, for all the shit talking Tab is doing online, he did the SAME THING in the U20 World Cup in 2019. Because of cards, I think, Tab was forced to start Ledezma, Servania and Pomykal against France in the midfield, and we could play with them and won. Then next game, he went back to his preferred midfield of Pomykal, Mendez and Durkin, taking down speed and athleticism at two midfield positions, and we lost to a very good Ecuador team. Most of us spent the whole time wondering why we weren't playing the former midfield, then saw it beat France and thought, Tab will surely get it... no. And it's not like that midfield is unskilled.
The '04's lost to Mexico in Guadalajara a week after the coaches daughter, a close friend of a bunch of players died in a car wreck. Them not doing anything was understandable. The '08's were in a group of death with perenial gold medalist threat Nigeria, traditional youth power Japan and a loaded Dutch team that we came one dumb --- late foul away from beating (Holden committed a foul in the last few seconds that lead directly to an equalizer which knocked us out of the tourney by the Nigeria game when we drew a red minutes after kick off. That team basically was a couple of seconds away from 4 points in a group of death with a truly stupid coach who was starting 800 year old McBride and Adu over the Altidore/Davies combo that would help beat Spain a year later and break their undefeated streak). I get that this team won some games, but let's add the necessary context here. I'll fully acknowledge going the other way, that if this team is ass stacked w/our best U23's available as that '08 team was mostly, we probably win this game, or at least draw it in regulation (and can beat nearly all the teams at this tournament).
Title IX changed the world. Soooo many women athletes from around the world competing on US college teams. The recent ruling that the NCAA has to give back pay to basketball and football players changes everything. Alllllll the sports money is going to go into football and basketball. I don't know how scholarships in non-revenue sports don't completely dry up.
Two things I'd love to know. #1 Our my suspicions correct that Mitro had an axe to grind with Luna because he took off the March Camp and that's why he didn't make the team? #2 Why was shredder and so many others so convinced Neal wouldn't make the team due to injury, when all the reports were that he was coming back to game fit/match fit status by the end of April. If he's ready to practice in April and ready to play in May, why was his injury an excuse for a lack of inclusion? That's a full 10-11 weeks before the Olympic Training Camp even started. The decision to not take Neal sounded like it was made during the winter of '23-'24, instead of when it should have been made in June. Very odd.
How much of this is "raw candor" and how much of this is an over 30 center back desperately trying to hold on at the edge of the USMNT pool.... Walker Zimmerman believes the biggest thing his younger Olympic teammates will take away is appreciation for representing the USA -- something he said has begun to slip in the US men's player pool. Raw candor from the veteran in the mixed zone. pic.twitter.com/4jJUivnG9n— Sam Borden (@SamBorden) August 2, 2024 Also if the best we've got is "appreciation for representing the USA" that feels almost like a participation trophy? Literally everyone at the Olympics is representing their country, even the no-hopers, I don't think it's American exceptionalism to say that our goals are a little more lofty than that!
Yep. I love CAF soccer for the talent, the craziness, the wonder goals, the supremely talented players that are just so fun to watch, the Sub Saharan African fans are such a joy in the stands, but my god are they the penultimate example of diving cheats and feigning injury bull----. It's like Conmebol x1000, but w/o the kind of gritty ruthlessness of a Uruguay that I sorta respect, and all the whiny, martyring bull---- Ghana indulged in the QF's. I get that they were robbed, they were, but my god did they have short memories, forgetting how they dove their way to a win over us in '06, forgetting in their vilification of Suarez (who, really, what was he supposed to do there? He was smart as hell) that Suarez had a teammate leaping and spreading his arms to deflect the ball away like he was a synchronized swimmer..... Just the disingenuousness. It's a PK for me but not for you. It's an abomination against my team but ---- your team. Hell the only way they even qualified for WC '22 was by absolutely hosing South Africa on one of the most absurd dives you'll ever see (South Africa was supremely jobbed in that qualifier). Okay, CAF/Ghana rant done.
Also as I've pointed out before, there was literally one comment in the entire Olympic roster thread suggesting Djordje Mihailovic as an overage option for the team... was he selected based on merit or because of the coach's previous relationship with him? Things get even more messy if ethnic background played a role...
Certainly Title IX has helped women from all over the world develop and compete in their sports/go to the olympics but of course it helped US women the most. Also the culture in the US allowing promoting women in sport absent in large parts of the world for decades and even to this day unfortunately.
Hey, I have money riding on you guys, I'm all in (I spread too much to Spain, and France initially, whoops), but it's not remotely like for like. This US U23 team featured probably about 4 or 5 guys that would make the 18 game roster automatically and next to zero starters. It's not our A side. They need to make this a full international release tournament and just shut down Europe Qualifying Tournaments in this window. Otherwise prestige will continue to shrink over time.
I am not sure that's really true. US ELO in 2000 ranged from 1786 -1818. In 2010 it ranged from 1754 to 1803. In 2020 it ranged from 1727 to 1746. Now it's 1747. The US been basically flat with some cycles due to the international calendar for a quarter of a century. I don't think the trend is upward.
Sure but making the wrong decision on a third center back who wouldn’t have played a ton anyways is fairly low stakes.
Ah, the sliding scale of discontent. For one, the Spain win was 15 years ago -- no need to round up on that one. More importantly, the Non-Mexico thing is fairly new -- no one used to say that. So as we were beating Mexico, those were big wins. Now, that people have decided they shouldn't count, we have retroactive disappointment. I remember the excitement I felt at say, Nations League '21. Or the level of dominance we have over Mexico now. That is progress. It's not as much as you'd like, but the mere fact that you've adjusted what a "Big Win" is tells me that things have moved. Furthermore, it seems everyone has moved on from winning against Top 20 teams in general being a good thing to now being irrelevant or assumed? This is winning in a sport with ties -- we don't get a lot of competitive matches against peer teams, but I think it's silly to completely throw away games against teams like Iran or Morocco, etc. There are good wins there, and important ones. The reality is that there is a massive gap between where we were 30 years ago and what the standard is now being set at -- which is beating Top 10 or better teams. The idea that there's been no movement somewhat assumes that the #30 team is close to a Top 10 team in ability and often swings upsets. Aside from Mexico, we almost never play these teams, we don't get a lot of sample here. I mean, there are definitely people flipping out. You might not be. But I guess my question is why would you think this team -- a U23 B team -- was the team that you should have expectations to step forward? I get the level of senior team disappointment. I have no idea why those heightened expectations were placed on this team. A medal run here would have been a Cinderella story. We've had a few of those -- and more than a few in Olympic sports -- but it's hardly where we'd expect to see progress.
Yep, good call back, I remember at the time watching that lineup announcement and saying it was like the lineup announcement against Ghana at the '10 WC, just guaranteed disaster class decision guaranteed to force early subs. One other note you need to add, it was those two stupid choices in midfield we were ALL complaining about that gave Ecuador the space to find their first of two first half goals as well. Both Durkin and Mendez did not close the guy down and he scored a beauty from distance w/all that space. Also worth noting that Tab didn't want Haji Wright at the U20 WC in '17, and ended up not pushing to get McKennie released for later in the tournament since Schalke was in the middle of a deep run that May (nearly beat Bayern Munich's kiddo's).
It was far closer to the best Olympic team you could have brought than ours. That's not to say ours is better than yours -- your team is very talented -- just saying that we didn't get a guy like Hakimi on our team and our best 8 or so U23s were not there. They are mostly the core of our senior team. And then probably then there was another crew of U23s not released.
Look back at that list. That does not suggest the US is improving. Reyna is a fine player, but limited, and none of the others are more than adequate. They help maintain the level, but they do not raise it even gradually.
I’ll be interested to see if we get a release bounce when we host the Olympics in Los Angeles. Morocco (Basically a home olympics for them) and France may have benefited from something like that.
I agree that could be a thing but I'm less concerned about that angle because it seems like he tried to get Vasquez, Morris, Pepi, Tillman, and maybe one or two other guys before he turned to him at all. I do think its idiotic that he was anywhere on the list to begin with though. Busio rendered his skill set redundant and he has zero versatility. It was beyond stupid. Always stupid. I'd love to say it happening instead of Luna was insane (and it is) but honestly I don't think Luna was ever getting picked after March. Coaches hate that sorta thing, ignoring that Luna had an insanely busy '23 and early '24 (his first full professional club season and an U20 WC run to the quarterfinals, and U20 tuneups for said WC, and U23 camps?!?!?! Of course he wanted a break).
I thought he held is own against France. He wasn’t as physically outmatched as I expected him to be this tournament and his technical quality and attacking contributions were encouraging. I think he can challenge Lund and Wiley for backup left back and could eventually become the heir to Jedi. We see how important Dest is to our buildout with his quality. Tolkin has a ways to go but there might be something there.
Well except that Mexico used to always get out of their World Cup group and win the next game, before losing in the fifth game. The current Mexico team failed to even get out of their group at both the last World Cup and at Copa America. So we can OBJECTIVELY say that Mexico has fallen off. Their own fans say it's the worst Mexico team they have ever seen. It's 2024 and they are now on their fourth coach since 2022. The previous two had winning percentages below 50%. As Mexico facing mostly Concacaf minnows that is pathetic!
I was just thinking that too, finally we're on the same page about something lol. Will be interesting. The argument has been that France got some guys they wouldn't normally have for that reason, and maybe Morocco did too (huge expatriate community in Europe and in France I think).
I cant remember so I'll take your word for it, maybe this was fatigue, it was certainly the worst I've ever seen him look (although some have said he had a really poor MLS season in '23 I guess which scuppered a planned move to Europe).
Your comments triggered two things in me: 1. It's fascinating how bitter and angry most of Tab's generation seem to be Tab, Wynalda, Claudio's a dick (little later but overlap). Lalas. Or at least the talking heads, aside from Meola. Hell, Friedel failed terribly as a coach going around claiming the real why the Revs sucked was because no one was going to beat them up on the way to the car. Where as the 2010 guys -- Deuce, Edu, Donovan, Howard, are all much more measured and aside from maybe Charlie, don't tend to go around screaming that everyone is an idiot. 2. The love of Tab is the perfect example of the USMNT hivemind. The dude screwed up a STACKED U20 World Cup even when he was forced into the right moves. Ecuador made the Finals, so you can either say we lost to a good team ... or had a clean shot to the finals. As you note, his selections for the U17 were not great either. He also was a terrible MLS coach and a poor USL coach. You could blame his MLS failure on Houston's roster, except BEN OLSEN, of all people, who's spent a decade getting ripped on for his unimaginative, conservative, awful DC United teams, comes in, reinvigorates a Herrerra who was a walking corpse under tab, plays beautiful if strikerless ball and suddenly makes Houston good. Ben Olsen! But, because he shouts at USSF and claims that he was forced into certain choices as a youth coach -- he, who was given on a platter the best midfield and walked from it -- is like a cult hero to a bunch of these guys. To the point people wanted him for Coach and take everything he says as gospel. The best he's done is with a stacked U20 team. He's not a good coach. We should recognize that when he talks.
probably but I don't know your U23 enough to say so. having Hakimi is a real + for us that's for sure but that was seen as risky too because he's very attacking and it forced our usual RB to play LB. Adding to that that both our CB were not released by their clubs (Chadi Riad and El Wafi) which forced us to put DM El Azzouzi in the CB associated with a weak Boukamir who was supposed to be a bench player at best. In the attack having Saibari not released by PSV was also a blow. Overall I'm very satisfied with the performance of our overage players but except Hakimi they are not our 1st choices. We brought our aging 2nd keeper instead of Bounou (the usual U23 GK who's a starter in Ligue 1 side Strasbourg got injured) but he did very well so far with good saves. 3rd overage is the striker Rahimi who's just made it into the A team as the 3rd choice behind Ennesiry and El Kaabi after a good season in Asia and he's performing. Best surprise so far in this tournament from our side was the team spirit to be honnest, they look like they enjoy playing together and they undestand well what their partner's movement is going to be. I wouldn't be harsh on USA side, the score is severe but if you scored the chance you got before our 2 - 0 it could have been a different match.
The '08 team was good and played well, but they still didn't advance and still didn't win a game. I'm not trying to say this team is better; I'm trying to say that the idea that we should assume getting out of the group 100% of the time or that the games we win as we won are not some level of accomplishment are not expectations backed up by history. I guess I'm just baffled anyone looked at this roster and thought "I'm going to be pissed if we don't medal." They could have played better against Morocco, for sure; they did play better against France. But also, no, our history is studded with Olympic success and while beating New Zealand and Guinea are not big wins ... we shouldn't completely discard them as meaningless.