The bolded matter ZERO to me. Porker? Fearmongering, wow...... They've been at war with us way before we've been at war with them. Does it have to happen on a daily bases for it to be a real threat? These are not including in Spain, Great Britian, Israel, Pakistan, India, Indonesia, Colombia, and all over the Middle East in markets, schools and neighborhoods. April 18, Beirut, Lebanon: U.S. embassy destroyed in suicide car-bomb attack; 63 dead, including 17 Americans. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility. Oct. 23, Beirut, Lebanon: Shiite suicide bombers exploded truck near U.S. military barracks at Beirut airport, killing 241 marines. Minutes later a second bomb killed 58 French paratroopers in their barracks in West Beirut. Dec. 12, Kuwait City, Kuwait: Shiite truck bombers attacked the U.S. embassy and other targets, killing 5 and injuring 80. 1984 Sept. 20, east Beirut, Lebanon: truck bomb exploded outside the U.S. embassy annex, killing 24, including 2 U.S. military. Dec. 3, Beirut, Lebanon: Kuwait Airways Flight 221, from Kuwait to Pakistan, hijacked and diverted to Tehran. 2 Americans killed. 1985 April 12, Madrid, Spain: Bombing at restaurant frequented by U.S. soldiers, killed 18 Spaniards and injured 82. June 14, Beirut, Lebanon: TWA Flight 847 en route from Athens to Rome hijacked to Beirut by Hezbollah terrorists and held for 17 days. A U.S. Navy diver executed. Oct. 7, Mediterranean Sea: gunmen attack Italian cruise ship, Achille Lauro. One U.S. tourist killed. Hijacking linked to Libya. Dec. 18, Rome, Italy, and Vienna, Austria: airports in Rome and Vienna were bombed, killing 20 people, 5 of whom were Americans. Bombing linked to Libya. 1986 April 2, Athens, Greece:A bomb exploded aboard TWA flight 840 en route from Rome to Athens, killing 4 Americans and injuring 9. April 5, West Berlin, Germany: Libyans bombed a disco frequented by U.S. servicemen, killing 2 and injuring hundreds. 1988 Dec. 21, Lockerbie, Scotland: N.Y.-bound Pan-Am Boeing 747 exploded in flight from a terrorist bomb and crashed into Scottish village, killing all 259 aboard and 11 on the ground. Passengers included 35 Syracuse University students and many U.S. military personnel. Libya formally admitted responsibility 15 years later (Aug. 2003) and offered $2.7 billion compensation to victims' families. 1993 Feb. 26, New York City: bomb exploded in basement garage of World Trade Center, killing 6 and injuring at least 1,040 others. In 1995, militant Islamist Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and 9 others were convicted of conspiracy charges, and in 1998, Ramzi Yousef, believed to have been the mastermind, was convicted of the bombing. Al-Qaeda involvement is suspected. 1995 Nov. 13, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: car bomb exploded at U.S. military headquarters, killing 5 U.S. military servicemen. 1996 June 25, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia: truck bomb exploded outside Khobar Towers military complex, killing 19 American servicemen and injuring hundreds of others. 13 Saudis and a Lebanese, all alleged members of Islamic militant group Hezbollah, were indicted on charges relating to the attack in June 2001. 1998 Aug. 7, Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania: truck bombs exploded almost simultaneously near 2 U.S. embassies, killing 224 (213 in Kenya and 11 in Tanzania) and injuring about 4,500. 4 men connected with al-Qaeda 2 of whom had received training at al-Qaeda camps inside Afghanistan, were convicted of the killings in May 2001 and later sentenced to life in prison. A federal grand jury had indicted 22 men in connection with the attacks, including Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, who remained at large. 2000 Oct. 12, Aden, Yemen: U.S. Navy destroyer USS Cole heavily damaged when a small boat loaded with explosives blew up alongside it. 17 sailors killed. Linked to Osama bin Laden, or members of al-Qaeda terrorist network. 2001 Sept. 11, New York City, Arlington, Va., and Shanksville, Pa.: hijackers crashed 2 commercial jets into twin towers of World Trade Center; 2 more hijacked jets were crashed into the Pentagon and a field in rural Pa. Total dead and missing numbered 2,9921: 2,749 in New York City, 184 at the Pentagon, 40 in Pa., and 19 hijackers. Islamic al-Qaeda terrorist group blamed. (See September 11, 2001: Timeline of Terrorism.) 2002 June 14, Karachi, Pakistan: bomb explodes outside American consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 12. Linked to al-Qaeda. 2003 May 12, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: suicide bombers kill 34, including 8 Americans, at housing compounds for Westerners. Al-Qaeda suspected. 2004 May 29–31, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists attack the offices of a Saudi oil company in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, take foreign oil workers hostage in a nearby residential compound, leaving 22 people dead including one American. June 11–19, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists kidnap and execute Paul Johnson Jr., an American, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. 2 other Americans and BBC cameraman killed by gun attacks. Dec. 6, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia: terrorists storm the U.S. consulate, killing 5 consulate employees. 4 terrorists were killed by Saudi security. 2005 Nov. 9, Amman, Jordan: suicide bombers hit 3 American hotels, Radisson, Grand Hyatt, and Days Inn, in Amman, Jordan, killing 57. Al-Qaeda claimed responsibility. 2006 Sept. 13, Damascus, Syria: an attack by four gunman on the American embassy is foiled. 2007 Jan. 12, Athens, Greece: the U.S. embassy is fired on by an anti-tank missile causing damage but no injuries. Dec. 11, Algeria: more than 60 people are killed, including 11 United Nations staff members, when Al Qaeda terrorists detonate two car bombs near Algeria's Constitutional Council and the United Nations offices. 2008 May 26, Iraq: a suicide bomber on a motorcycle kills six U.S. soldiers and wounds 18 others in Tarmiya. June 24, Iraq: a suicide bomber kills at least 20 people, including three U.S. Marines, at a meeting between sheiks and Americans in Karmah, a town west of Baghdad. June 12, Afghanistan: four American servicemen are killed when a roadside bomb explodes near a U.S. military vehicle in Farah Province. July 13, Afghanistan: nine U.S.soldiers and at least 15 NATO troops die when Taliban militants boldly attack an American base in Kunar Province, which borders Pakistan. It's the most deadly against U.S. troops in three years. Aug. 18 and 19, Afghanistan: as many as 15 suicide bombers backed by about 30 militants attack a U.S. military base, Camp Salerno, in Bamiyan. Fighting between U.S. troops and members of the Taliban rages overnight. No U.S. troops are killed.
As a private citizen, he was part owner of the Texas Rangers (failing thanks to his inadequate management skills) that got a big subsidy/tax break to built a new stadium and later sold the team for a big profit. As a politician, of course, most of his measures are paybacks to his supporters in questionable projects/legislation... Actually thanks to Reagan and Bush I, the US have been involved in the middle East since like 30 years ago, supporting despots and helping some dictators into power (Saddam anyone?). So I would say that the Chicken was first. I am not denying that there are some attacks, but his declarations play the tune: If you don't elect me, the terrorist have won!!! So the US interest in Colombia are being attacked by islamic extremists? Tell Uribe please..... Spain, Great Britan and Indonesia and most of the attacks you mention occured thanks to the failed policy of attacking Iraq. Of course then you'll say that it is better to fight them there than fighting them here. Israel has its own problems for allegedly occupy a land that was friendly shared before the creation of the Jew State and by hogging water and land that belonged to the Palestinians. I am not saying that the attacks are not happening, what I am saying is that a fearmonger uses the attacks for political gain, like he is not providing extremists with more Guantanamos and Abu Grahibs to ignite their hate...
Careful, SCLM! From your last post, I worry that its becoming contagious based on Harper&Co's move to call for re-elections in CDA!
Sysco, I don't think you're a moron, and wouldn't say so, but this I take issue with: Going before congress and the nation and knowingly delivering false information about Iraq purchasing yellow cake to make the case for war was criminal/misleading fearmongering. The fact that Bush&Co. later blamed the gaffe on faulty "british intelligence" despite the fact that his own government had proven that intelligence faulty before his speech makes it all the more pathetic. The fact that the national threat advisory (that color system thats supposed to help us know how in danger we are) was adjusted to create news and draw attention from negative newscycles consistently throughout the Bush administration is fearmongering. More recently, the concerted effort on the part of Fox and McCain's campaign to paint Obama as un-american because he a) is from Hawaii (as much a state as the rest!) b) his middle name is Hussein (a common name amongst people of his background) and c) is Muslim (he's Christian and has devoted a large part of his writings to his faith in Christ) are all fearmongering. Its understandable why they do it - its worked before. Ironically, McCain was the first to call Rove&Co. out for their "swift-boating" of Kerry (a war hero himself) with false allegations about his military career! Today, he's hired most of the teams who did that, and also took McCain himself apart viciously in 2000, to do the same to Obama. Alas...
don't forget to add an avid cursing fool at international conferences. Remember four years ago when he was caught cursing at Tony Blair. What a clown.
Than add porker as another that doesn't matter to me. I guess no attacks happened during Clinton's 8? No more attacks when Obama takes office No hogging of the water or land happened on the first day of the Israeli state when they were attacked by 7 different countries. When did I say they Colombia was attacked by Muslim extremist? HE is also responsible for Abu Ghraib, was HE the one holding the German Shepard or was HE a guard Guantanamo, ok.
Please provide me the link with the evidence that Bush new that the evidence was faulty before the speech you speak of. That would be news to me. You pay attention to the terror level color? The news spends a lot of time on it? Dont they usually say it has moved from orange to red, next. Iraq had used chemical weapons against his own people. I occasionally watch Fox news and never heard any of what you are talking about in bold. How any one could claim that Obama is un-american is beyond me. Hawaii is a state, his middle name is Hussein (so what my last is Rodriguez) the left should not cry if someone uses it, it is his middle name, and it's obvious that he has attended his Christian church in Chicago for the last 20 some years. He is no Muslim and Fox or McCain have never stated he was. They might have reported that someone "claims" that he is Muslim. You shouldn't read so much far right web sites. That's like me going to the Daily Coast and considering them for actual news.
who was the president on september 11, 2001? And how qualified he looked that day.... Are you going to say that reacting well to actual danger does not matter to you? Of course they're not liked, but that's Israel and we are discussing the US, we share some enemies, but the reasons islamic extremists dislike each country are different. As a commander in chief, he has oversighted all these embarrasing events and tried to cover each and every one of them. Wasn't Cheney and all arguing that waterboarding is not torture and that Guantanamo is fine and all that crap? Threating prisoners of war or detainees according to Geneva conventions doesn't matter to you I guess?
No he should have stood up and gone back to the limo for an update on the distruction. But maybe Bush could have stopped it all if he ran. He is a cowboy after all. Good pic. I guess I was thinking terrorist and Colombia poped in my head. My bad. I know some of us dont think we have terrorist they are freedom fighters. How did the commander in chief try to cover up Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib? Water boarding, sleep deprivation, cold rooms, I dont have a problem with them. Now if we start cutting peoples heads off, that would be messed up. I already know, I'm a bad bad person
What about to listening to all the previous warnings given to him in the daily intelligence report? Would that have helped? No, Farcs and ELNs and AUCs are no angels. But they're not muslim extremists either, their war is more about money now, although they share their hate for yankee imperialism... Change cover up for legalize, that suites them better. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/26/opinion/26wed2.html How is this different from torture? Maybe is light torture, but when the detainee undergoing it requires medical treatment or dies, isn't it the same? Sysco there is something very clear to me, and that is that you have to be consistent with your beliefs. If we believe in the declaration of independence, it does not read "All citizens of the USA are created equal", it reads: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." And if we believe in the founding fathers, we need to treat enemies accordingly. Capture them, prosecute swiftly them and hang them if it is proved that they are criminals in a court of law. Whatever you do with them that does not acknowledge their hummanity only brings the US down to their level and just earn us more enemies. Furthermore when you torture someone most of the time they'll tell you whatever you want to hear in order to stop the treatment. Ask the spanish inquisition how many witches confessed.
Newsflash: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3056626.stm http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/06/opinion/06WILS.html?ex=1221019200&en=1361165c1eb60c54&ei=5070 Nice summary here of what was going on. The Times, heck, even the Daily Show did a great summary of the timing of the color change press conferences. These were big news back in 04, and the White House made sure of it! http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/03/us_terror_alert_political_football/ You may think emphasizing his middle name is meaningless, but this builds onto their anchors and often their headlines misspelling his name as Osama, their anchors running stories about Obama being educated in a madrasa, and one of their anchors asking viewers whether Obama had given his wife a "terrorist fist jab" when he gave her a pound after a speech... They want to make the public afraid of Obama. I won't deny that Hillary started it with her 3am ad, but Fox (likely briefed by McCain's comms chief Tucker Bounds) have picked up the football and run with it!
There was info giving on the hijacking of planes it's true, but it was vague. Nobody had ever used planes as missiles. If a hijacking did take place intelligence thought it would be like other times. They would ask for something, a prisoner, whatever. Never the less the FAA asked security personnel, ground personnel to have a heightened state of alert. You have to think about the complete info that could be given to the public. There was no time, there was no place, there was no method of attack. It simply said these are people who train and seem to talk possibly about hijackings. That you would have risked shutting down the American civil aviation system with such generalized information. Yes it would have save 3000 or more lives and maybe it should have happened but do you know how much information comes by the presidents office on a daily basis. I'm sure no president can act on every one. Even Messiah Obama wont. I do wish somehow that the whole American aviations system would have shut down to spare the huge lose that day and including the wars that would follow. Good article. Damn McCain! I might just have to stay home on Nov. 4th after reading that article. But really for me even if we get 1 good small lead out of 20 or 50 by any one of the 3 means I mentioned, it is fine by me. It could save hundreds of lives or lead us to an important hide out and take out a top guy. It's not like there going to get let go afterward so giving bad intelligence there just back where they started. If after all the possible integrating of one guy is done then just put him in a cell so he can dream of how many people he could have killed and he can feel sorry that he did not meet his objective of meeting Allah. This is all we got against these guys. They work in small cells, they want to die. I don't say kill them but it is what they deserve, just not in the way that they want. I do believe in the Declaration of Independence that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. I agree with you they should be captured but it's so hard to do when dying is there whole intent and when we get one IMO we have to act as if he knows something, anything. We can agree to disagree here. The guys we are after are not looking for the above mentioned bolded words, and would like to take them away from you given the chance. I also believe that pedophiles, murders, rapist and others do not deserve them either. I love Clinton's 3 strikes and your out. It was Clinton wasn't it? I do wish that small drug infractions were not included unless committing one of the crimes I just mentioned. Anyway, my wife is going to kill me. Have a good night.
It is a shame you think that a president caught saying "sh*t" this and "f" that in an international dinner while being videotaped is something to be proud of.
Who said proud Just I'm sure he didn't know he was being videotaped. I don't kid myself and think that the president doesn't curse. Now if he got in front of the camera and just went off, then that's a different story.
Ah W. Either way I'll miss him! Remember when he tried to give German Chancellor Merkel a 'sensual' shoulder rub and she freaked out! He's one of a kind.
There is something clear, the whole government failed to see all the signals, the early ones, the late ones and the obvious ones. However, the way the top officials misshandled the whole thing is what frustrated me more. My little pet goat was just the starting point, then they had a few bright days and then Saddam obsession took over and they just wasted any simpaty we were getting, even from traditional enemies.... So you are for torturing the classromm to find out who painted graffitti in the restrooms? Torture is a tricky thing, a little bit like smoking, once you start is very difficult to quit. And you have to cover your trail and you cannot give right conduct to those tortured even if you find that they are innocent, because they are now your mortal enemies even if they weren't before you captured them. But how do you find that they are pedophiles, murders, rapists? How do you know for sure that all the detainees in CIAs hands all over the world are actually terrorists? Some people are turned up just to claim bounty and have nothing to do with Al-qaeda. Don't you have a formal process before hanging them? That's my whole point, we are not in the wild west were lynching and stoning was up to the community. No sire, we have to follow the principles of the declaration of independence and the constitution in every action we take as a nation. By no means am I requesting Hilton suites and gourmet cuisine for our enemies, only swift and correct trial. If they're found guilty (I can lend them to you for a couple of weeks to extract information - no waterboarding please, only squating and sleep deprivation) execute them promptly. When you have the opportunity rent "In the name of the father"; is a movie about how the UK handled Irish detainees during their darkest hours... pay close attention. Being a bump, lazy ass does not make you a terrorist... Without due process?
I don't think everyone captured in the Afghanistan, Iraq, here and abroad get tortured. I don't think .01% do. Maybe here is where we have another difference of thought. http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/400rhqav.asp?pg=1 Before I even read this article this is exactly what I have had in mind. I don't know about you assertion of once you start you cant stop. I know it's your opinion but I just don't think that would be the case.
From your article, I think that this is pretty much my opinion: And then, this is the part where I disagree: I disagree with keeping them in jail without process. Trial them, execute them if guilty, send them back if they are innocent. So far they're in limbo and are subject of abuse, even if Mr. Kraphammer think that torture is not torture unless you clearly especify what torture is. You know torture when you see it and there is torture in Guantanamo too. http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2001/august22/prison2-822.html
And I respect your opinion. If they are being tortured becuase they have not had due process than that is torture to you. Yeah the guys in Guantanamo let them go. I know most dont have where to go. Leave them in Cuba, whatever. I could care less about those low level guys. I guess I more was talking about what to do with the 2nd and 3rd tier that was laid out in the article. I saw a show on the study you speak of. What a nasty turn that took. I understood what the study was about, but on the same hand the ones that played the part of criminals knew they did nothing wrong. They freaked out and I would too even if I did say I would take part in a 1 month experiment. I doubt I'd freak out on the 2nd day but it would get kind of annoying. Then the guys that played guards knew they did not have to respond to anyone they were the judge, jury, and executioners. Never the less awesome experiment. One of the guys was just straight evil though and got the other guards to go along with his humiliating of the prisoners.
I think that the study showed that actually you do not need much of a push to engage in such behavior... Eventhough, if there is only one person to blame, who was the evil mind behing AbuGrahib? Was somebody in the regular rank file soldiers in the prison, or was somebody above them that allowed to go overboard?
In this case probably both. Some retard jar head thinking it would be hilarious to humiliate prisoners and some ranking prison official above them turning a blind eye. Obviously all that are part of the Military are not saints (like in any organization). Like the MFer that threw the puppy off a cliff, what an animal! How could anyone do such a thing
Don't you think that a loose definition of what is legal (enhanced interrogation techniques) could be a starting point? I kick this guy in the nuts - deemed legal by my superior, next time I burn him with a cigar - deemed legal... and so on... And what if, you actually looked for bad apples to put in a particular barrel?
I can't believe where McCain is taking this campaign. His latest ad falsely accuses Obama of wanting to 'teach kids sex ed before they can read." http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/new_mccain_ad_badly_distorts_o_1.php The worst part is what McCain is claiming as the basis for the claim, that Obama voted for (didn't even write or sponsor) a bill in the Illinois legislature that aimed to prevent child molestation and mandated that any existing sex ed class taught to students in K-12 must include education about STDs. The bill didn't propose new sex ed classes or extension of those classes to younger students. McCain's distortion of Obama's action is despicable. Fearmongering? Yeah. Honorable, no.