I don't disagree with you and, as you say, FIFA doesn't care about fans. They, quite rightly, assume that if they put a game in Vancouver, fans from Seattle will travel up (and vice versa). From a fan perspective, having multiple games in the same area is a good thing, but that isn't financially advantageous for FIFA.
Crazy rumor of the day... ...I heard that Mexico may be in jeopardy of losing their matches. Not because of security or altitude or smog or infrastructure problems or distance from the rest of the tournament or logistical reasons. It is because of the stupid chant some of their stupid fans say that offends people.
I'd read that too. And frankly I look forward to Canada and the US receiving more matches because their fans insist on continuing the chant. I have no expectation that they'll stop because so far they've shown no inclination to do so. The Gold Cup is going to be their undoing. Even if they don't consider it homophobic, they've been asked to stop doing it repeatedly for years because a great many including FIFA do consider it homophobic. If they'd rather continue to shout their slur instead of watching their team play in and their country host the World Cup, be my guest. But that's a really stupid hill to die on.
Not only do they show no inclination to stop doing it, but they are making it a case of pride that they are making the chant.
I just see it as "Politically Correct" grandstanding by FIFA though. And just like most leftists that grandstand and virtue signal it comes with obvious leftist illogical conclusions and hypocrisy. Case and point having a World Cup in a Middle Eastern Culture that is not known to be all the progressive when pertaining to LGBT subjects and laws yet punishes a Federation for some drunk idiot mexican fans for saying a word they have been saying for decades. Does not really add up to me.
Doesn't have to add up. It's still wrong independent of the asshattery that went on at FIFA to give a World Cup to a regressive country that uses virtual slave labor to build stadiums (and which was corruptly given said Cup). But that ship has long sailed and happened under Blatter. Infantino's regime has made it clear that the Qataris are going to have to swallow their ass backward laws and allow homosexuals to attend the 2022 World Cup of Death. And his regime has made it clear Mexican fans need to stop using homophobic slurs (and making excuses as to why it's "in good fun" or the other bullshit they present when asked to stop). The real question is, why can't Mexican fans chant something else? It's clearly offensive to many people, including some of their own and the sport's current governing body. They make it sound like this is a decades long thing that's integral to their culture. They've only been doing it for what 15 years or so? Find something else to chant. This isn't some leftist thing, it's a common sense thing.
IT has been more than 15 years but that is a different topic. I personally am more libertarian when it comes to Freedom of Speech. Basically an absolutist. If a fan wants to say something or swear or say things that gets under the skin of people they have the right to do it. I also have the right to say they are idiots for doing it and say they should be ashamed of themselves for saying swear words and such but I think it comes down to principle. What their fans think going into the situation could be a little bit of you cannot tell me what to say. It may just be plain rebellion just like when any institution tries to tell you what to say or do and you think you are being cool for going against some arbitrary rules.
Well luckily this isn't a matter of free speech since you're not entitled to free speech at a sporting event in the US or any country. The host, FIFA, has said STFU. So they're required to STFU or lose their right to participate. It's really that simple. If they want to rebel, they'll suffer the consequences rightly so. As I said, it's a REALLY stupid hill to die on.
You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of "Freedom of Speech", particularly when it comes to non-governmental action. Freedom of Speech does not mean freedom from consequences of that speech. In this case, Mexico's fans are more than welcome to say what they want, but they do so knowing the consequence of it is that their team can be forced to forfeit games and/or suffer bans.
That is self explanatory. The fans are coming to that conclusion. They are seeing that they are losing their supporters for Qualifiers and rumored to lose hosting rights if it keeps up. But they (some fans) obviously see it as an attack on their culture or they way of doing things. And it Does not take away from grandstanding and the hypocrisy. And Fans say AND do much worse things that offend many people of all cultures that FIFA does not seem to care about so it is odd they arbitrarily choose this hill to die on as you would say. It just seems really odd.
You seem to have a misunderstanding about my posts. I never said or implied that there are no consequences. That is something you made up.
Oh I don't disagree that it's odd and somewhat hypocritical that FIFA don't come down harder on other matters, such as the racism of the English or the slave driving of the Qataris. But the whataboutism argument also holds no water. This is what FIFA has currently put in their crosshairs, it's wrong that the Mexican fans chant it, and that's that. Frankly I hope they just haven't gotten around to slapping down the English and while they haven't stripped Qatar of the cup they have at least wrung some concessions out of them. But hopefully the fact they're coming down hard on Mexico is a sign of how they'll operate in the future.
Why do they hold no water though? "Whataboutisms" are important no matter what snarky people on podcasts or social media say about them. We compare things all the time. It is human nature to bring up other topics that are similar and see what precedents are set socially and in policies. And in this Case FIFA policies. I find it weird people just seem to want to shut down things just because people say what about. Which in many cases can be valid what abouts.
Except your point seems to be that because Mexico's fans want to do it, they should be allowed to do so.. Which, again, no one is stopping them from doing so. They just do so with the understanding that there are consequences. Other than that, your argument relies heavily on the logical fallacies of "whataboutism" and "arbitrarianism". Every line in the sand is arbitrary because there is generally very little different between what is on the "good" side of that line and the "bad" side of that line.
And me being more of a Libertarian on such issues would say it would be a bit fascist and iron fisted to operate like this imposing bans and such based on "social justice " and political issues such as this in the future. The game may be in a horrible place if it trends that way from my perspective But we are both entitled to our perspectives.
When you are using "Whataboutism" to draw attention to other issues that should be enforced, that's fine, but when you are using it as an argument as to why something else shouldn't be enforced, that's when it is entirely deserving of a snarky response. Should FIFA do better targeting racism, xenophobia, etc, etc, absolutely. But that doesn't mean they should let other things go.
People shut them down because they're not used as "you're rightly punishing us but you should punish that behavior too" or similar. They're used the way Mexican fans are using them, "you're not punishing them for doing something wrong so you can't punish us either." If people used Whataboutism in a constructive way I'd agree it would have some merit. But I've very rarely seen it used that way. It's almost always used as an excuse to continue one's own bad behavior because someone else didn't get caught/punished.
My point is there are some people who know there are consequences and keep on doing it, And in many ways this may come back to haunt FIFA because the more you tell someone not to do something without having and logical points or non hypocritical virtue signals the more it makes people want to rebel. Every line in the sand is not arbitrary. We have had rules against fan behavior that were not based on social justice or leftist politics before.
It all depends on who is defining what is wrong I suppose. There are common things people at soccer games know is wrong. Now there seems an agenda to tell people what is obviously wrong when they do not see it as obviously wrong.
And part of those rules include using offensive language, tho. It isn't social justice or leftist politics to punish people for being jackasses.
Yes. But I do not see teams losing their fans for people swearing or using the lord's name in vain or stuff like that which has been offensive to millions of people for centuries. I see them going the leftist social justice route.
I mean, it is wrong. It's not a debatable point. It's a slur, period. Many of them even admit that it's wrong, but then follow it up with some variation of, "but it's all in good fun" or "it's our culture". No genius, it's not in good fun and maybe it's time for that aspect of your culture to join the 21st century.