Union Youth Development Thread [R]

Discussion in 'Philadelphia Union' started by derek750, Jul 23, 2010.

  1. celt1997

    celt1997 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 31, 2006
    Philly Burbs
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This article highlights the youth players going to Germany recently.

    http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/sour...-borussia-dortmund/1dhjhllndk0p51d6f5fbx0cze5

    Discussions on reddit indicate that the MLS teams they were involved with are, in fact, getting nothing in return.
     
  2. slitz

    slitz Member+

    Feb 19, 2005
    Red City, 140
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yeah I saw that today as well. The one I read was even before this. If this is the trend, then what's that say about the union's strategy?
     
  3. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You have to sign players to pro contracts. Our kids across MLS are being snatched up before signing a pro contract.
     
  4. drewuke

    drewuke Member+

    Jul 19, 2012
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Players have always left, it's just news now because the players are better than ever.
     
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  5. slitz

    slitz Member+

    Feb 19, 2005
    Red City, 140
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep and it's news for us because the club is putting most of their eggs in this basket
     
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  6. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And therein lies the problem. Between the kids going to college and the Euro and Mexican clubs sniffing around for freebies, it’s a really tough model to sign players.
     
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  7. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Union have already lost academy kids to overseas clubs: Dos Santos, Steffen, etc...
     
  8. thomas19064

    thomas19064 Member+

    Apr 29, 2008
    Delco
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Union losing out on Steffen I think had more to do with self inflicted wounds from the Union than the overseas club.
     
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  9. slitz

    slitz Member+

    Feb 19, 2005
    Red City, 140
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yeah I know... as I said it's more of an issue now that they are putting so much emphasis (and money) on the academy model. and yeah, as Thomas said, Steffen's lose was due to Sack's mismanagement
     
  10. celt1997

    celt1997 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 31, 2006
    Philly Burbs
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think right now the Union are in a place where developing some youth will work out, and this season has shown that. The league is still in flux with the haves & have-nots. However, as the talent base continues to increase with clubs spending more money, you're not going to be as successful with the "left over" youth talent that didn't leave for greener pastures.

    Unless the goal is to produce, sell, and reinvest in marketable / ready-to-play talent then the Union will forever be falling behind. Even if their Academy is producing "nice" players.
     
  11. Dills

    Dills Moderator
    Staff Member

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jun 6, 2006
    Southampton|PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And, in Zack's case, by "overseas" you really mean the Ohio River.
     
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  12. slitz

    slitz Member+

    Feb 19, 2005
    Red City, 140
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    my understanding of the situation is that, as long as the U offered a contract before he left for Germany, they would have retained his rights. Even if he didn't sign it.
     
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  13. SOBtilIdie

    SOBtilIdie Member

    Feb 14, 2010
    Philadelphia
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the model is entirely predicated on getting the academy.players to sign contracts at 15/16 years old and then they are tied to the club and can be sold of needed. This might mean taking some flyers on a few but if you hit on a few and they are signed then the model works.

    Any there are a lot of assumptions put on these kids. Do they really want to leave their home to go to Europe and be away from family/school/social.scene?I feel like the personal aspect is ignored entirely and it's only soccer, soccer, soccer.
     
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  14. Ruud11

    Ruud11 Member

    Dec 2, 2009
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I heard that after Pulisic's success and the fact that they can snap up youth players for pretty much $0, European clubs have really stepped up their search for talent in the US. This is the reason why so many are now moving overseas and the trend will likely grow exponential until US Soccer finally gets their act together and puts a process in place so that they and the home grown club make some decent $'s from the transfer. Visa issues will however remain as Will Vint experienced.
     
  15. Union42

    Union42 Member+

    Jul 29, 2013
    Swarthmore, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have heard the same thing. If the 15-16 YO player is really good, you know they will have agents in their ear basically telling them, "Why sign now, wait til you are 18 to make a decision.
    Even if you don't plan on going to Europe, you may change your mind, or we can use the threat of leaving to hold out for more money."

    Ironically, this issue would be somewhat mitigated if MLS embraced the training compensation payment system the rest of the world seems to be on board with but USSF & MLS are against.

    Also, the Visa issues are stricter in the UK than the rest of Europe by my understanding, and this may increase in the post-Brexit era.
     
  16. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you can stomach it, venture over to the USA Boards on BS..............those morons have a total disregard for the human side. Steffen came back because he was homesick, same with Canouse. Everyone conveniently forgets that Pulisic's dad moved to Germany with him to help make his transition easier.
     
  17. PhillyMLS

    PhillyMLS Member+

    Oct 24, 2000
    SE PA
    I don't think the USSF is necessarily against it more than they are unsure if they legally can do it. Remember, training compensation is forcing an employer to pay a fee to sign an employee to another entity. An employee that does not have a contract with that entity. I feel like the first kid that tries to sign a contract that doesn't go through would sue the USSF. I know we like to think that sport is different but could you imagine any industry being able to legally force an employer to pay a fee for an out of contract employee that doesn't have a non-compete clause (or something similar)?

    MLS won't get involved because they already bargained away things like solidarity payments in the CBA with the MLSPA (because they MLSPA wants nothing to do with fees that could restrict their movement). Of course, that is the same as FIFPro who have stated repeatedly they are against things like training compensation and solidarity payments.
     
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  18. slitz

    slitz Member+

    Feb 19, 2005
    Red City, 140
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep, it's like fans never learned anything from LD's German adventure 15 years ago.

    I think Canouse' s situation was complicated by fiancee/gf not getting a work permit or something
     
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  19. Phillyspur

    Phillyspur Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    England
    Mar 18, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    B-b-but I'm told that Trusty and McKenzie will be snapped up by some European team any day now. For a big transfer fee. Have the Union ever got a transfer fee? For anyone?
     
  20. PhillyMLS

    PhillyMLS Member+

    Oct 24, 2000
    SE PA
    Carlos Ruiz right off the top of my head.

    After looking: Michael Lahoud to Miami FC. And likely some loan fees during the debacle that was Carlos Valdes.
     
  21. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They fleeced like $500K out of Cruz Azul for Michael Farfan. They managed to rent Kleberson to keep the bench splinter free for a year too in exchange for Adu. They sold Letoux for Garber bucks & they netted a loan fee for Ayuk from that Swedish team.
     
  22. thomas19064

    thomas19064 Member+

    Apr 29, 2008
    Delco
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. celt1997

    celt1997 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 31, 2006
    Philly Burbs
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Miscic’s profile exploded last year when he scored 33 goals in all competitions for the Union U15s, but beyond the goals and attacking prowess it’s his soccer IQ and maturity both on the field that make him such an exciting prospect both for the Union and the United States Men’s National Team."

    :eek: When are we going to retire this term?

    Kid looks quality, though, let's hope we can keep him.
     
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  24. SOBtilIdie

    SOBtilIdie Member

    Feb 14, 2010
    Philadelphia
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He signed a contract. He's part of the Union Organization. They keep him or they sell him. He's no longer just an academy player that can walk when he's 18.
     
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  25. buzzkiller23

    buzzkiller23 Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Glenolden, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How dare you question the soccer IQ of a 15 year old.
     

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